E-Target Bashing
- Thread starter One Shot One Thrill
- Start date
dcali
Bullet Maker
Some of us don't want to shoot electronic targets because we've had *too much* exposure to computers. I will admit they look very handy for practice, though. On match day, I'll take being the pits getting tagged by an occasional spotter, taunting the guys on the line via radio, and general BSing over an iPad screen every single time. The crack of a bullet overhead is like the smell of gunpowder - a sign that all is right with the world. Ask me again when I'm 70 and I might give you a different answer, but hopefully not.
I hope Ben Avery holds out. Obsoleting that view up the mountain, those hundreds of yards of pits, 100+ cantilever targets, trolleys and that full bathroom “oasis” in the desert would sting.
The speed of these switchovers sure surprised me. This is an interesting question, at least to me - if a foreign electronics giant with a name like a “Samsung or Hitachi” decided to branch out and pitched this idea of revolutionizing the world’s shooting community’s monthly matches, club by club, I do wonder how far they would have gotten. We’d probably say in unison - stay in your lane. Likewise, if the NRA told us to do it, a “can you tell us why”?
I hope the E-targets guys employ some of the folks that catered to us with pasters, spotters and spindles all these years.
The speed of these switchovers sure surprised me. This is an interesting question, at least to me - if a foreign electronics giant with a name like a “Samsung or Hitachi” decided to branch out and pitched this idea of revolutionizing the world’s shooting community’s monthly matches, club by club, I do wonder how far they would have gotten. We’d probably say in unison - stay in your lane. Likewise, if the NRA told us to do it, a “can you tell us why”?
I hope the E-targets guys employ some of the folks that catered to us with pasters, spotters and spindles all these years.
I am old enough to remember when we used paste and paper to patch bullet holes and waving a flag on the end of a pole to indicate misses and and a triangular pointer to indicate hits on target, sitting/standing in bunkers that seemed to have been built during WWI. Do I miss those days...no. I welcome looking into a pad to see my score and not depending a target puller busy talking to his buddy about his problems on the firing line.
I hope that there aren't very many folks reluctant to use E-Targets just because they will have to use a piece of electronics with which they have no experience. But if you're out there, don't worry. Someone will be glad to help you. True, there is a computer involved, but your personal relationship with the computer is not any deeper than it is when you use an ATM or when you switch channels on your television. Programming skills NOT required.
My regular range using the SMT system simply plops a tablet on a stand right in front of you and it's ready to go. When you're done you can press the screen where it instructs you to do so or you can simply call the Match Director who will be more than happy to touch the screen for you. Even if you absolutely refuse to touch an electronic device, you can still shoot e-Targets.
When I shot the Kongsberg system for the first time, a couple of the options were not immediately obvious to me and the system was not, in my opinion, very user friendly. But a 30 second chat with the Range Master cleared up my questions. I suspect any e-Target is similar in that a particular mode or option may not be immediately obvious, but none of it will be difficult for any shooter to understand.
Bottom line: E-Targets are different, but not difficult. They're designed to be well within the capability of anyone, young or old, who is able to make a phone call or start an automobile. It ain't rocket surgery. If in doubt, just ask and you can be assured of getting all the help you need.
Yes, yes, but see, this one’s the E-target “bashing” thread.
. They’ll be one for talking about guys pulling down targets right when you take a shot, some that can’t find a hole that turns out to be right by the prior one, after a full minute delay, slow referee score changes to a 10 that are followed by 9’s, and cease fires for sending down EMS for the occasional fainting spells. Fisherman have fun even on slow days. No target preferences are going to make much difference on how our shooting days go. It’s all good, and always will be as long as matches are held.
So......
Why has no one developed IR sensors rather than acoustic? I would think that 3 sensor arrays 120* apart would be able to triangulate the impact. Bullet has to break the beams, no membranes or chambers to worry about.
I may be off base, but check this patent out:
https://patents.google.com/patent/US5596509A/en
Why has no one developed IR sensors rather than acoustic? I would think that 3 sensor arrays 120* apart would be able to triangulate the impact. Bullet has to break the beams, no membranes or chambers to worry about.
I may be off base, but check this patent out:
https://patents.google.com/patent/US5596509A/en
They do already exist for smallbore http://www.sius.com/en/03.17.0_Produkte_Sport_Scheiben_LS25-50.html
I guess it be a cost issue given the sqft of coverage requied for long range. You could put 2 rows in and detect crossfires as well.
ISSF has been using electronic targets for quite some time now but:
the SUIS system only uses laser (and only 2 intersecting beams as I recall) for the centre of the 10 & 50 metre targets where they score in .1 of a point increment of value in finals. The rest of the target where if you hit it, you're a dead duck, is accoustic.
You might consider at least giving them a try. I started with a Bullseye camera system so I could effectively practice by myself. That made learning to shoot etargets a much easier decisionI don't think most proponents of paper targets view them as either perfect or a panacea. However, for me there needs to be an absolutely clear advantage to any new system in order to justify making a change that will affect every single participant. I don't believe that new is necessarily better, or in making changes simply because we can. I'm personally just not seeing such a clear advantage at this point for E-targets. Certainly they can shorten the length of matches, but I've never viewed that as an advantage. I anticipate devoting the better part of a day (or weekend, or week for a big match) to a match and don't see a real benefit to completing a match in 3 hours. Like you, I do view the information return from E-targets as one of the big benefits to their use. That is information that was not readily available previously to competitors and can be very useful toward improving your shooting if analyzed and used properly. However, that is data I can also generate myself during practice sessions, so it's not like I wouldn't have it otherwise. I am not particularly concerned with any scoring "accuracy" issues with E-targets, the accuracy is what it is. Any such issues will only improve over time as the systems develop further. The "missed shot" and/or "taking an extra shot" issues are a little more troubling, but as the technology is developed further and users gain more familiarity with their systems, I'm sure those issues will also largely be resolved.
Call me a dinosaur, but I guess for me it boils down to the changes in how you shoot a match and being forced to look at a tablet and shoot on E-targets or else not participate. I've never particularly cared for having things I don't want forced down my throat without any input and then been told, "It's the way of the future, so get over it, or else don't show up". I don't treat others that way and tend to dig in my heels when it's done to me. There really is no in-between because ranges that have adopted them are probably never going to revert to paper targets. Unlike individual decisions made about one's personal shooting equipment, a decision to switch to an E-target system will necessarily impact every shooter that would like to participate. There's really no way to do both. More often than not, such decisions are made by one person (or a very small number of people) fairly high up the food chain. As far as their adoption locally, I'm relatively safe for the time being because my home range just completely re-worked our 600 yd range and pits with traditional target carriers. After the cost involved in that project, I don't envision the powers that be adopting E-targets anytime soon, not that I would have any real say in the matter if they did.
There are several ranges in my area of the country that do use E-targets and I simply have no real desire to go through the effort of preparation and travel time/expense and compete because of that. I don't harass my fellow competitors that favor their use for having a different opinion than mine, but I personally don't have much interest in participating. As I've stated on numerous occasions, I have no doubt that E-targets are the future of the sport. I'll participate when and where I can at venues that still use paper targets, but at some point I'll probably be forced to either accept their use or hang it up. I guess that's the way of all dinosaurs...you either adapt or go extinct.
Forgot we are suppose to be bashing them. My bash would the learning where to put things so that it simulates your shooting style without needing to get off the rifle. Took me a couple matches to figure it out.
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Calculate 7.8232 (.308) minus 5.6642 (.223) = 2.159 mm / 2 (radius) = 1.0795 mm
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