300 PRC

[moondog]

grains H2O?

 

[FURMAN]

grains H2O?

It is going to be right around 97 grains of H2O.

 

[FrankG]

grains H2O?

I took a case and filled it with water. Pretty sure I got it all out into the pan on the scale. I say 94gr of H2O.

Later, Frank

 

[FURMAN]

I took a case and filled it with water. Pretty sure I got it all out into the pan on the scale. I say 94gr of H2O.

Later, Frank

I find it easier to tare the scale with the case you are measuring and then add water. That is pretty small. My 300WM Winchester brass is 92.5 and Nosler/Norma is 95.5. My 30 Nosler averages 98.9. If that is the case that is a little disappointing. I do like to see more options but I will have to stick with the 300WM or 30 Nosler.

 

[wboggs]

I find it easier to tare the scale with the case you are measuring and then add water. That is pretty small. My 300WM Winchester brass is 92.5 and Nosler/Norma is 95.5. My 30 Nosler averages 98.9. If that is the case that is a little disappointing. I do like to see more options but I will have to stick with the 300WM or 30 Nosler.

If all parameters are the same. what velocity gain can be expected by increasing case capacity from 94 to 100 grs.water?
Bill

 

[FURMAN]

If all parameters are the same. what velocity gain can be expected by increasing case capacity from 94 to 100 grs.water?
Bill

I have had two 300 win mags(currently working with a third) one with a 27" on 28" barrel. They were pushing a 215 Berger 2890 and 2950 respectively in their accuracy node with 95.5 gr H20. I have had two(still have one) 30 Noslers with 26" barrels both pushing 215s 3030-3040 in the node. The WMs used 75-76 gr H1000 depending on lot and one 30 used 80gr retumbo the other 83 N570. All four rifles had more velocity before pressure. I would say if barrel lengths were equal the 30 Nosler would be closer to 150fps faster. I will say I have seen many guys claiming 3000fps with the WM but neither of mine would do it. One of them was custom throated for the 215 although the SAAMI chamber allows seating of a 215 at what I would consider proper depth.

 

[wboggs]

I have had two 300 win mags(currently working with a third) one with a 27" on 28" barrel. They were pushing a 215 Berger 2890 and 2950 respectively in their accuracy node with 95.5 gr H20. I have had two(still have one) 30 Noslers with 26" barrels both pushing 215s 3030-3040 in the node. The WMs used 75-76 gr H1000 depending on lot and one 30 used 80gr retumbo the other 83 N570. All four rifles had more velocity before pressure. I would say if barrel lengths were equal the 30 Nosler would be closer to 150fps faster. I will say I have seen many guys claiming 3000fps with the WM but neither of mine would do it. One of them was custom throated for the 215 although the SAAMI chamber allows seating of a 215 at what I would consider proper depth.

Do we have any members trained in internal ballistics? Maybe some members of the US Army Ballistic Research Labs could give us a tutorial.
Bill

 

[moondog]

I took a case and filled it with water. Pretty sure I got it all out into the pan on the scale. I say 94gr of H2O.

Later, Frank

Thanks Frank

 

[FrankG]

I’ll reweigh it with the water in the case.

215 Bergers out of a .300wm and pushing 2890 and 2950. I’ve seen load data at that velocity and bullet weight out of min. Spec. Test barrels and I will say you are running approx. 6k psi over maximum working pressure.

The PRC will do that with out being over pressure.

 

[FrankG]

I find it easier to tare the scale with the case you are measuring and then add water. That is pretty small. My 300WM Winchester brass is 92.5 and Nosler/Norma is 95.5. My 30 Nosler averages 98.9. If that is the case that is a little disappointing. I do like to see more options but I will have to stick with the 300WM or 30 Nosler.

I zeroed/tared out the scale with a case on it. Filled it with water and weighed it.

95.6gr of H2O.

 

[FURMAN]

I zeroed/tared out the scale with a case on it. Filled it with water and weighed it.

95.6gr of H2O.

Thanks. So it is pretty much identical to the larger capacity 300 WM cases.

 

[FURMAN]

I’ll reweigh it with the water in the case.

215 Bergers out of a .300wm and pushing 2890 and 2950. I’ve seen load data at that velocity and bullet weight out of min. Spec. Test barrels and I will say you are running approx. 6k psi over maximum working pressure.

The PRC will do that with out being over pressure.

I do not have a strain gauge setup so I can't argue. I can tell you there was not a single ejector mark on norma or Nosler brass with no increased bolt lift at those speeds. I had to increase the powder charge roughly 1-1.5 grains to get a hint of eject mark. I completely understand some cases are inherently more efficient but a 6k psi change at the same exact capacity is a little hard to believe.

 

[FURMAN]

One more point with the 300 win and 215s. Bergers ammo(formerly ABM) pushes 215s 2886 out of a 26" barrel seated at 3.6" vice the roughly 3.7" in the rifles I had and the one I currently have. Brian, I am sure, has tested them extensively and I know many others who have run the ABM ammo with validated velocities.

I am impressed with 2900 with 225s and 230s. That is basically what the WM will do with 215s. Frank, have you shot any 212s or 215s? If so what was the velocity?

 

[IdahoCTD]

2950ish is a really common velocity from a 26" 300wm using H-1000 and 215's. It isn't over pressured when the OAL is 3.7"+. Winchester cases will last 6+ reloads at those speeds. I shoot 2960 with my 26" 300wsm (Brux 4 groove) using R-26 and 215's with a OAL of 3.191. I have 6 reloads on many of my Winchester cases and the primer pockets are still good. I've built and loaded for numerous 300wm's (Bartlein, Brux and Proof barrels) using my long throat reamer and they all would reach that 2950ish velocity with 215's in 26" barrels using 75-78grs of H-1000.

I also have a 30-8mm mag (Bartlein 5R) that will shoot 210 Matrix bullets at 3100fps in a 27.5" barrel with 4+ reloads on Remington 8mm mag brass. That case is 99.0grs of water capacity which is basically the same as a 30 Nosler.

My 300wsm gave up about 100fps running 225 ELD-M's instead of the 215 Bergers.

 

[wboggs]

2950ish is a really common velocity from a 26" 300wm using H-1000 and 215's. It isn't over pressured when the OAL is 3.7"+. Winchester cases will last 6+ reloads at those speeds. I shoot 2960 with my 26" 300wsm (Brux 4 groove) using R-26 and 215's with a OAL of 3.191. I have 6 reloads on many of my Winchester cases and the primer pockets are still good. I've built and loaded for numerous 300wm's (Bartlein, Brux and Proof barrels) using my long throat reamer and they all would reach that 2950ish velocity with 215's in 26" barrels using 75-78grs of H-1000.

I also have a 30-8mm mag (Bartlein 5R) that will shoot 210 Matrix bullets at 3100fps in a 27.5" barrel with 4+ reloads on Remington 8mm mag brass. That case is 99.0grs of water capacity which is basically the same as a 30 Nosler.

My 300wsm gave up about 100fps running 225 ELD-M's instead of the 215 Bergers.

IdahoCTD
Have you noted any differences in barrel life using RL26 vs. H1000?
Bill

 

[FrankG]

One more point with the 300 win and 215s. Bergers ammo(formerly ABM) pushes 215s 2886 out of a 26" barrel seated at 3.6" vice the roughly 3.7" in the rifles I had and the one I currently have. Brian, I am sure, has tested them extensively and I know many others who have run the ABM ammo with validated velocities.

I am impressed with 2900 with 225s and 230s. That is basically what the WM will do with 215s. Frank, have you shot any 212s or 215s? If so what was the velocity?

No I haven't shot any bullet lighter than a 225gr. So sorry I cannot give you any feed back on that.

When I say Saami spec. test barrels (these are electronic pressure port test barrels) just so everyone that is following this and I'll try and clarify the numbers a little more.....the test barrel length for SAAMI spec. is 24". Chamber and bore and groove sizes have to be SAAMI min. spec. So no chambers with longer throats etc....

The .300WM with a 215/220gr. bullet at 2850fps (I'm gonna with hold the powder and powder charge) is running approx. 6k PSI over max limit.

The .300PRC will hit the same velocity with a 225gr bullet with out being over pressure in the same barrel length.

Yes if you are running a longer throat in your WM and your longer on barrel length than I can see hitting some higher velocities and pressures might be high but not over. So just be careful with your loads and rifle. Also just because you are not seeing any pressure signs like heavy bolt lift, ejector marks etc...doesn't mean the pressure isn't there.

Back to work!

Later, Frank

 

[IdahoCTD]

IdahoCTD
Have you noted any differences in barrel life using RL26 vs. H1000?
Bill

I haven't scoped my barrel in awhile. My 300wsm only has around 350 rounds through it. I started using it for hunting 3 years ago and shot it about 200 rounds the first year and 75 or so per year since then. My hunting buddies brother took it to AK and killed a caribou with it last week and I haven't got it back yet. He had never shot past 400yds before I took him out and let him shoot that rifle and he was banging steel plates out to 946yds with it. Now it has killed 7 elk, 1 mule deer, 2 axis deer, 2 antelope, a caribou, and a few muskrats in those 3 years. BTW H1000 isn't really a go to powder for the 300wsm. It's a go to powder for the 300wm. R-17 and H4350 seem to be more popular with the 300wsm.

 

[wboggs]

No I haven't shot any bullet lighter than a 225gr. So sorry I cannot give you any feed back on that.

When I say Saami spec. test barrels (these are electronic pressure port test barrels) just so everyone that is following this and I'll try and clarify the numbers a little more.....the test barrel length for SAAMI spec. is 24". Chamber and bore and groove sizes have to be SAAMI min. spec. So no chambers with longer throats etc....

The .300WM with a 215/220gr. bullet at 2850fps (I'm gonna with hold the powder and powder charge) is running approx. 6k PSI over max limit.

The .300PRC will hit the same velocity with a 225gr bullet with out being over pressure in the same barrel length.

Yes if you are running a longer throat in your WM and your longer on barrel length than I can see hitting some higher velocities and pressures might be high but not over. So just be careful with your loads and rifle. Also just because you are not seeing any pressure signs like heavy bolt lift, ejector marks etc...doesn't mean the pressure isn't there.

Back to work!

Later, Frank

No I haven't shot any bullet lighter than a 225gr. So sorry I cannot give you any feed back on that.

When I say Saami spec. test barrels (these are electronic pressure port test barrels) just so everyone that is following this and I'll try and clarify the numbers a little more.....the test barrel length for SAAMI spec. is 24". Chamber and bore and groove sizes have to be SAAMI min. spec. So no chambers with longer throats etc....

The .300WM with a 215/220gr. bullet at 2850fps (I'm gonna with hold the powder and powder charge) is running approx. 6k PSI over max limit.

The .300PRC will hit the same velocity with a 225gr bullet with out being over pressure in the same barrel length.

Yes if you are running a longer throat in your WM and your longer on barrel length than I can see hitting some higher velocities and pressures might be high but not over. So just be careful with your loads and rifle. Also just because you are not seeing any pressure signs like heavy bolt lift, ejector marks etc...doesn't mean the pressure isn't there.

Back to work!

Later, Frank

Thanks for the clarification, Frank. That seems like the only valid way to compare cartridges by eliminating as many variables as possible. All bets are off once you have all the variations introduced by multiple individuals chambering and loading.
Bill

 

[FURMAN]

Thanks for the clarification, Frank. That seems like the only valid way to compare cartridges by eliminating as many variables as possible. All bets are off once you have all the variations introduced by multiple individuals chambering and loading.
Bill

That thought process is only valid if you plan on shooting a SAAMI chamber with SAAMI ammo. I would venture to guess most people asking questions are more interested in the case itself rather than how it was chambered/throated. I could be wrong. Most of the high performance 28 Noslers you are seeing are custom throated because IMO Nosler blew it with the throat design. The Case is another story.

 

[FURMAN]

No I haven't shot any bullet lighter than a 225gr. So sorry I cannot give you any feed back on that.

When I say Saami spec. test barrels (these are electronic pressure port test barrels) just so everyone that is following this and I'll try and clarify the numbers a little more.....the test barrel length for SAAMI spec. is 24". Chamber and bore and groove sizes have to be SAAMI min. spec. So no chambers with longer throats etc....

The .300WM with a 215/220gr. bullet at 2850fps (I'm gonna with hold the powder and powder charge) is running approx. 6k PSI over max limit.

The .300PRC will hit the same velocity with a 225gr bullet with out being over pressure in the same barrel length.

Yes if you are running a longer throat in your WM and your longer on barrel length than I can see hitting some higher velocities and pressures might be high but not over. So just be careful with your loads and rifle. Also just because you are not seeing any pressure signs like heavy bolt lift, ejector marks etc...doesn't mean the pressure isn't there.

Back to work!

Later, Frank

Could you clarify a little more? Is this with bullets seated at 3.34"? The two SAAMI chambered/throated 300WMs I have had allowed seating 215s at 3.7".