Abrasive Bore Cleaner Specifications
- Thread starter Prose
- Start date
Prose
Silver $$ Contributor
Received some new info on the Bore-Tech Chameleon Gel. Noticed their website says silica based but the SDS says Calcite. I called and spoke to them about it and it is a proprietary product that is somewhat in-between.
The Bore-Tech gel is designed to be "Significantly" less abrasive than the other products. They say it is not capable of lapping or polishing the bore and that the abrasive has an actual hardness of "Less than barrel steel."
The Bore-Tech gel is designed to be "Significantly" less abrasive than the other products. They say it is not capable of lapping or polishing the bore and that the abrasive has an actual hardness of "Less than barrel steel."
Dusty Stevens
Shiner
I cant believe they wouldnt tell you how its made. Best thing anybody can do is try it and see if it fits your bill. Use a reputable company and try their products. If it sucks or destroys barrels they wont be selling it in 2yrs. How long has jb bore brite been out? I know i was using it 25yrs ago and everybody that i shoot with still uses it on barrels that can shoot the difference. If it ever verifiably tore up one barrel they’d never sell another jar. Same with any of the other cleaners/polishes/chemicals. Pick one and try it. If it hasnt destroyed a barrel in the last 5yrs itll still be on the market and will be worth a try.
Prose
Silver $$ Contributor
They were pretty good sports about providing information I only included enough to provide an accurate description while respecting their trade secrets.
Thank you for the info on all these products!Barrel cleaning is a function of risk management.
It would be easier to choose the least amount necessary if there was a ranking of abrasives backed by actual facts. If a person knew the composition of the abrasive as well as the grit, they may be able to make a more informed decision about cleaning the barrel. If you can add to this list, and include source so that it is a list of facts, that could help someone in the future. The info that I included came from Safety Data Sheets, manufacturer spec, and/or geology databases.
Name COMPOUND Grit (MOHS Hardness Scale)
Witches Brew
Iosso FOSSIL Based "Very Fine/round" (3-4 depending on type of fossil)
JB Bore Cleaning Compound ALMANDINE AND PYROPE GARNET. I've heard 800-1000? (7-7.5)
JB Bore Shine ALMANDINE AND PYROPE GARNET. I've heard 1200 grit? (7-7.5)
Bore Tech Chameleon Gel CALCITE and SILICA 1 Micron 8,000-14,000 grit (3/7)
3F Pumice (Brownells) AL Oxide (9) and AMORPHOUS SILICA (7) 600-800 Grit
3F Rottenstone (Brownells) LIMESTONE 4000 grit (3-4)
Rem 40X Bore Cleaner diatomaceous earth 800 Grit (7)
KG-2 ? 1200-1400 Grit
I'm sure there are more. Feel free to add. I will compile and verify the best I can. Please include sources. No talking about non-abrasive products or regimens on this thread
Question: Just for comparative reasons, what is the average CM and Stainless bore hardness?
Prose
Silver $$ Contributor
About a 4-5 according to google as well as a couple barrel makers that I had asked when looking into this. Barrel manufacture affects bore hardness of course hammer vs button vs cut and coatings blah blah blah. Bottom line is most of the abrasives are harder than steel so don't get too crazy... below is an example of a chart that someone else posted on the internet regarding their opinion.
Mohs Hardness for Common Materials
Mohs Hardness for Common Materials
- Lead 1.5
- Finger Nail 2.5
- Zinc 2.5
- Aluminum 2.75 No oxidation. The oxidation changes everything.
- Copper 3
- Brass 3.5
- Bronze 3.5
- Nickel 4
- Stainless Steel Frame 4
- Steel Gun Barrel 4
- Steel 4.25
- Nitrided Steel 4.4
- SS Gun Barrel 4.4
- Stainless Steel Slide 4.4
- Iron 4.5
- Glass 5.5 Not as hard as the sand it is made from because sand is the crystalline form
- Hornblende 5.5 A kind of black sand grain
- Knife Blade 5.5 Not the high chrome super knives
- Hematite 6 Hot dip or traditional gun bluing
- Feldspar 6.25 Pink sand grains
- Arkansas Whetstone 6.5 This is why you can’t sharpen a high chrome Japanese knife with a whetstone
- Steel File 6.5
- Quartz 7 Clear or translucent sand grains
- Case Hardened Steel 7.5 The rainbow colored steel on some firearms
- Ceramic 8.5 Sharpening rods and stones
- Tungsten Carbide 8.75 Machine tool cutting edges
- Aluminum Oxide 9 Sandpaper and the outside of oxidized aluminum gun cleaning rods
- Diamond 10 A girls best friend unless she is being mugged for the diamonds
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Prose
Silver $$ Contributor
Witches Brew from Holland's. Statement below is from an email from Darrell Holland when I asked him about the bore-cleaning article from 6mmBR (attributed to the owner of pac-nor barrels) that states his product is made with Aluminum Oxide.
"We use a special petroleum carrier and a 1200 micron abrasive similar (of hardness) to JB. Recommended use every 80-100 rnds. 10-15 strokes use a copper brush wrapped with a patch. Removes both carbon and copper. Works like a million bucks when used with a bore scope. Note, all patches come out blackish, 10-15 strokes is normally all it takes. Does not contain any ammonia."
This proves that it is not aluminum oxide. 1200 micron Aluminum Oxide powder would destroy a barrel in a single pass. Hardness of JB is 7, so consider Witches brew commensurate. 1200 micron would typically be less than 800 grit (JB), perhaps as low as 300-400 grit but it's hard to say (Micron size and grit do not have a standard correlation).
"We use a special petroleum carrier and a 1200 micron abrasive similar (of hardness) to JB. Recommended use every 80-100 rnds. 10-15 strokes use a copper brush wrapped with a patch. Removes both carbon and copper. Works like a million bucks when used with a bore scope. Note, all patches come out blackish, 10-15 strokes is normally all it takes. Does not contain any ammonia."
This proves that it is not aluminum oxide. 1200 micron Aluminum Oxide powder would destroy a barrel in a single pass. Hardness of JB is 7, so consider Witches brew commensurate. 1200 micron would typically be less than 800 grit (JB), perhaps as low as 300-400 grit but it's hard to say (Micron size and grit do not have a standard correlation).
VFG Bore Paste: https://www.tesro.ca/vfg-bore-cleaning-compound.html
I am looking for the product spec on this regarding the 'fine polishing particles"
I am looking for the product spec on this regarding the 'fine polishing particles"
Has anyone tried the really fine industrial diamond pastes in a carrier like Kroil? I’d mostly be interested in throat maintenance. I have pastes down to .1 micron or so from honing straight razors. It’s pretty fine stuff.
STS
Silver $$ Contributor
1200 micron = .047 inches. As a reference 150 micron is equal to 100 grit.
farmerjohn
Gold $$ Contributor
Very good thread! Can always learn something from the younger minds, kinda keeps older heads from getting so set in their ways that they are incapable of learning something new. Whole lot like my son buying me a F&D fx120i scale! Put all my beam scales in a box and cut my SDs and ESs by 2/3! Learned to weigh powder in hundredths rather than tenths....
Prose
Silver $$ Contributor
The hardness of the carbon does not correlate to how tough it is to remove as the hardness of the carbon does not have anything to do with the mechanical bond to the barrel steel. Carbon, ie burnt powder, is very hard(9) and compacted carbon or caked on is just that, but no harder. I imagine abrasive bore cleaners breaking the hard carbon layer and chipping it away and not so much as sanding it away, kinda like scraping ice off the windshield.
https://www.alanrhone.com/images/products-vfg-catalogue.pdf
looks like that’s for airguns and rim fires only and for cleaning the entire bore... So for lead and not copper? I would imagine it being much softer then the center fire products in this thread that are aimed at hard carbon and copper removal. Other products like this use the same type of abrasives but a finer grit, 1200-2000 generally. I think you might need to speak german to figure this one out though.
https://www.alanrhone.com/images/products-vfg-catalogue.pdf
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The VFG felts have a history in air rifles and rim fire although are made today in a range to fit from .22 through to 9mm. Brownells are promoting them for centre fire and have a video showing their use with Kroil and JB/Iosso.
The felts and the paste might be a good combination for CF depending on what's actually in the paste. It could be similar to JB or Iosso.
The felts and the paste might be a good combination for CF depending on what's actually in the paste. It could be similar to JB or Iosso.
Those vfgs work very nice with an abrasive like JB or Iosso. Use one caliber up and have at it
All this stuff like aluminum oxide, silica (diatomaceous earth), garnet, is real hard and scratchy and are commonly used in abrasives - sand paper but in various bore pastes it is in tiny grains . My instincts would be to use this stuff only as a last resort and infrequently. I would apply it only where needed and clean it out completely after use. All the hard scratchy stuff is also almost insoluble (won't dissolve). MSD info should provide some indication of what it is composed of. Upon reading the word (alumina) in some bore polishing stuff I think it might mean aluminum oxide but in tiny particles.
Reading Wikipedia, I saw that aluminum oxide is used in some tooth paste(s). Would a nylon bore brush dipped in Gleam make your bore sparkle? My bore cleaning consists of a 1 hr. to overnight application of Gunslick foaming bore cleaner squirted into the bore followed by a patch that comes out blue-black then 10 -15 strokes with a clean nylon bore brush dipped in 5-20 synthetic motor oil, dry patches complete the process - the first patch comes out coal black (carbon?), usually 2 more patches complete the cleanup. I wear nitrile gloves when I clean up stuff using chemicals.
Reading Wikipedia, I saw that aluminum oxide is used in some tooth paste(s). Would a nylon bore brush dipped in Gleam make your bore sparkle? My bore cleaning consists of a 1 hr. to overnight application of Gunslick foaming bore cleaner squirted into the bore followed by a patch that comes out blue-black then 10 -15 strokes with a clean nylon bore brush dipped in 5-20 synthetic motor oil, dry patches complete the process - the first patch comes out coal black (carbon?), usually 2 more patches complete the cleanup. I wear nitrile gloves when I clean up stuff using chemicals.
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