Abrasive Bore Cleaner Specifications

[Capt. Oblivious]

Reading Wikipedia, I saw that aluminum oxide is used in some tooth paste(s). Would a nylon bore brush dipped in Gleam make your bore sparkle? My bore cleaning consists of a 1 hr. to overnight application of Gunslick foaming bore cleaner squirted into the bore followed by a patch that comes out blue-black then 10 -15 strokes with a clean nylon bore brush dipped in 5-20 synthetic motor oil, dry patches complete the process - the first patch comes out coal black (carbon?), usually 2 more patches complete the cleanup. I wear nitrile gloves when I clean up stuff using chemicals.

I believe most tooth pasts would make a very nice mechanical bore/carbon cleaner. Unfortunately in the calibers I shoot I cant get by with just a nylon brush for some reason

 

[fyrewall]

I would guess the aluminum oxide grit size in tooth paste is tiny and mixed with other abrasives. Occasionally, I use bronze brushes for real stubborn stuff. This this toothpaste/aluminum oxide mix might dispel some worries about tiny grain aluminum oxide wearing out rifle barrels. Big chucks of aluminum oxide like found in sandpaper would do a number on a nice rifle barrel.

 

[Prose]

Has anyone tried the really fine industrial diamond pastes in a carrier like Kroil? I’d mostly be interested in throat maintenance. I have pastes down to .1 micron or so from honing straight razors. It’s pretty fine stuff.

The industrial powders used in the successful commercial products listed in this thread are round particles and generally top out about 7 hardness. Other really successful ones (like IOSSO) are down in the 3-4 range. The steel of a razor is significantly harder than barrel steel. Diamond materials are used for cutting because they are jagged (like a saw blade) and will not break down into smaller particles. I would assume that this would lead to embedding which would cause horrible fouling. My recommendation would be to not introduce a diamond compound (hardness of 10) to your barrel.

 

[seymour fish]

The leather strap alone will polish and sharpen blades. The old timers always sharpened straight razors with one. Matt

D K Hunt, I often strop a blade back to shaving sharp on the palm of my hand if nothing else is available. Pretty sure it ain’t Abrasive

 

[TAJ45]

1200 micron = .047 inches. As a reference 150 micron is equal to 100 grit.

I think you may have dropped a couple zeroes...or multiplied.

According to MBA chart. IF and IF...
I'm deciphering right,
1000 grit is .00028" so 1200 would be naturally less.

 

[Ggmac]

In the past I've used DuPont automotive paint rubbing compound and a finer grit is the cleaning compound.
Works on carbon .

 

[STS]

I think you may have dropped a couple zeroes...or multiplied.

According to MBA chart. IF and IF...
I'm deciphering right,
1000 grit is .00028" so 1200 would be naturally less.

You're comparing apples and oranges. 1000 grit does not equal 1000 micron. You are intermingling two very different scales. Microns and grit size are not the same. Again, 1200 MICRON (not grit) = .047 inches.

 

[TAJ45]

You're comparing apples and oranges. 1000 grit does not equal 1000 micron. You are intermingling two very different scales. Microns and grit size are not the same. Again, 1200 MICRON (not grit) = .047 inches.

Ah so, now I understand. You were correcting the post that stated they used 1200 micron sized abrasive.....I agree completely. I was listing the conversion from grit to micron.

I misinterpreted your post. We are both singing off the same page. Simple multiplication of 1200 microns to inches relative to the other non referenced post. Total boot by me. Carry on -

 

[STS]

Ah so, now I understand. You were correcting the post that stated they used 1200 micron sized abrasive.....I agree completely. I was listing the conversion from grit to micron.

I misinterpreted your post. We are both singing off the same page. Simple multiplication of 1200 microns to inches relative to the other non referenced post. Total boot by me. Carry on -

Exactly correct. My point there was to stimulate thought and comparison of known values prior to passing them on as gospel on the internet. If Mr. Holland indeed said in an email that his cleaning solution contained 1200 micron AlOx abrasive then I would imagine those barrels he used it on would not be long for this world. I'm quite sure he knows the difference in those abrasive sizes and does not use something approximately 1/4 the size of a BB to clean a barrel.

 

[Prose]

To be clear about that whole micron to grit thing, that is copy and pasted from the email Hollande sent me. The important part is that it’s not aluminum oxide. He also said it’s comparable to JB, which we already know is about 800 grit.

microns are not a measurement of grit, but of size. Changing the material changes the mesh it will fit through. Talc, being soft, will fit through a steel mesh that the same size of a harder material will not fit through. That is why I do not believe that micron and grit directly correlate. If you really do some research on the subject you will see that all sorts of powdered product manufacturers have their own scales of approximate correlation and they are not all the same. When asking specific questions to these manufacturers about micron-grit comparisons they kinda left the impression with me that microns are a raw material estimate, but grit is a measurable rating on a finished product.

To me, when they tell you the grit they are giving a specification. When they give you a micron size it’s a sales pitch. Some people unknowingly confuse them without bad intentions. If you read this whole thread and come away with the need to get a micron caliper, don’t use abrasives.

 

[TAJ45]

Having read these posts, I realized it is very similar to the specs for a grinding wheel - surface, ID, OD or thread apps.
There are several aspects to consider - most apply here.
1) hardness of the particles (grit)
2) grit size
3) strength of bond (not applicable for us here)
4) density of grit in the medium (it seems this would apply )

 

[ppaul]

If there is still confusion about micron vs grit size they are different. The higher the micron number the coarser the size particle. the higher the grit number the smaller the size particle.

 

[james]

If there is still confusion about micron vs grit size they are different. The higher the micron number the coarser the size particle. the higher the grit number the smaller the size particle.

Very interesting thread! I routinely use Butch's Bore Shine for routine cleaning and its does a credible job. I recently purchased some Witches Brew from Hollands and thinking about using it for routine cleaning. Sounds like it would more aggressive on carbon and copper than Butch's.

 

[STS]

If there is still confusion about micron vs grit size they are different. The higher the micron number the coarser the size particle. the higher the grit number the smaller the size particle.

That is correct. I see this type of misunderstanding of different units of measurement all the time. Half the people that I work with in medicine don't have a functional understanding of the metric system, which the unit "micron" is a part of. I get a good laugh every once in a while when these threads pop up and crazy numbers are quoted.

 

[BoydAllen]

Fellows, I think that there is some level of misunderstanding here relating how grit, mesh and micron specifications relate. While this is a sand blasting media chart, it will serve to illustrate my point. For Grit and mesh sizes, the bigger the number the smaller the particle size. For micron the opposite is true, the bigger the number the bigger the particle. In reference to the manufacturer' specification of 1200 micron for a bore product, I can only view that as a mistake. Nothing else makes sense. When I copied and pasted, the formatting was lost but if you pay close attention you can figure it out. Here is a link to the page I got it from. https://www.raptorblaster.com/sandblasting-grit-conversion-chart/
1200 microns is .047". No one would put such boulders down their bore.

Grit Size Mesh USS Microns (Avg) Inches (Avg)
#4 3.5 5600~4750 0.187
#5 4 4750~4000 0.157
#6 5 4000~3350 0.132
#7 6 3350~2800 0.111
#8 7 2210 0.087
#10 8 1854 0.073
#12 10 1600 0.063
#14 12 1346 0.053
#16 14 1092 0.043
#20 16 940 0.037
#24 20 686 0.027
#30 25 559 0.022
#36 30 483 0.019
#46 40 356 0.014
#54 45 305 0.012
#60 50 254 0.010
#70 60 203 0.008
#80 70 165 0.0065
#90 80 145 0.0057
#100 100 122 0.0048
#120 120 102 0.0040
#150 140 89 0.0035
#180 170 76 0.0030
#220 200 63 0.0025
#240 200 50-53.5 0.0020
CF1
48 0.00189
F
40 0.00160
#280
39-44 0.00154
FF
33 0.00130
#320
31-36 0.00122
#360
25.8-28.8
FFF (Course)
25 0.00099
#400
20.6-23.6 0.00087
#500
16.7-19.7 0.00075
FFF
19 0.00075
#600
13-16 0.00063
#700
11-14 0.00055
#800
9.8-12.3 0.00047
FFFF
11 0.00043
#900
7-9.5 0.00035
#1000
6.8-9.3 0.00028
#1200
4.5-6.5 4.5- 6.5

 

[hogpatrol]

Micron is a liner measurement, i.e. one thousandth of a millimeter. Could be a diameter, circumference, length, width, etc.
Converted to inches, a micron is .0000393701..."

An example of how small one is, it's when you get baby poop on your hand, scrub it with an abrasive hand cleaner but can still smell it, that's a micron.

Edit: Back when I checked car parts and bodies with a CMM, that's the definition I was given.

 

[rdimedio]

Barrel cleaning is a function of risk management.

It would be easier to choose the least amount necessary if there was a ranking of abrasives backed by actual facts. If a person knew the composition of the abrasive as well as the grit, they may be able to make a more informed decision about cleaning the barrel. If you can add to this list, and include source so that it is a list of facts, that could help someone in the future. The info that I included came from Safety Data Sheets, manufacturer spec, and/or geology databases.

Name COMPOUND Grit (MOHS Hardness Scale)

Witches Brew
Iosso FOSSIL Based "Very Fine/round" (3-4 depending on type of fossil)
JB Bore Cleaning Compound ALMANDINE AND PYROPE GARNET. I've heard 800-1000? (7-7.5)
JB Bore Shine ALMANDINE AND PYROPE GARNET. I've heard 1200 grit? (7-7.5)
Bore Tech Chameleon Gel CALCITE and SILICA 1 Micron 8,000-14,000 grit (3/7)
3F Pumice (Brownells) AL Oxide (9) and AMORPHOUS SILICA (7) 600-800 Grit
3F Rottenstone (Brownells) LIMESTONE 4000 grit (3-4)
Rem 40X Bore Cleaner diatomaceous earth 800 Grit (7)
KG-2 ? 1200-1400 Grit

I'm sure there are more. Feel free to add. I will compile and verify the best I can. Please include sources. No talking about non-abrasive products or regimens on this thread

US products supplied JB's Bore Cleaner for a long time too. Not any more. We have Red Garnet grit size 600- 800 - 1000 - 1200. The 800 works the best on barrels and polishing soft metals. We also make a bore paste for dirtier barrels. We supply lapping products to companies making gun barrels and guns. I am not an engineer nor am I gunsmith.

 

[Shooter13]

Maybe a stupid question, but is it the higher the number, the finer or less abrasive a substance is? For instance, is 800 grit more abrasive than 1200 grit or do I have it all wrong?

Simple answer is yes. 80 grit looks like BBs glued to a piece of paper!!