Change the F-Class National Championship CoF?

[falconpilot]

Larry

You're one of the founding father of this sport. No disrespect meant in disagreeing with you on the petition. We can all disagree on certain things and still love the sport.

See you on the line..

 

[BT1]

I am all for MR f-class to be done from 600 yards. Will sign and submit. Thanks for starting the ball rolling.

One of the best early year MR f-class matches down here in FL is the "Orange Blossom Regional" at Port Malabar. Great event. Is now shot all at 600. Even then if you drop a (1) shot ALL DAY 599/600 at 600 you may wind up in 5th. Happened to me. Lots of 600/600 30x+ shot all at 600 yards. I am not belittling matches that only have 300 yards, here at Manatee is one, but I will not shoot it. Waste time, bullets and barrel. 22# dasher on a SEB rest at 600 yards in reasonable conditions is just a trigger pull. 300 and 500 yard strings are going to help determine the best shooter that day? I think not. I shoot a 7mm of some variety in LR and even at 600 when the wind is really up. Same goes for that "Palma" format in LR f-class. If you do not shoot clean at 800 and 900 you are going to go backward.

 

[Kings X]

Richard,
Glad to see your last line. BTW, the petition was not my idea. I’m just the messenger/poster.

Yea but now no ones will see my new Golden Bear with Shilen in 6 Walker

 

[Lbart]

Larry
You're one of the founding father of this sport. No disrespect meant in disagreeing with you on the petition. We can all disagree on certain things and still love the sport.
See you on the line..

I would not expect everyone to feel the same about anything and I certainly took no offence at your comments. You are certainly welcome to your own views. But the vast majority of MR shooters who attend the Nationals seem to agree with the petition and I hope the request is approved by the NRA.
BTW, I hope everyone understands the petition would only affect the FC MR Nationals and not other matches or championships.

 

[MGYSGT]

I notice a lot of folks talking abut shooting out the X ring at 300/500/600. I have pulled a lot of those targets and I have to tell you, I have never had to replace the center for a single shooter. I only replace it when shooters change, if necessary, and that is not very often.

 

[kyreloader]

I notice a lot of folks talking abut shooting out the X ring at 300/500/600. I have pulled a lot of those targets and I have to tell you, I have never had to replace the center for a single shooter. I only replace it when shooters change, if necessary, and that is not very often.

Have you shot at the Nationals?

After one shooter, you can’t see the X and 10 rings due to pasters.

Disadvantage for the second shooter if you are not refacing each shooter.

 

[falconpilot]

You guys are using the shooting the face out thing as a scare tactic or something. I've NEVER, not once, especially at Nationals shot a 300(or 5oo that I can remember) that wasn't refaced. .........and if you do shot one, that's your own fault as each shooters has the right to ask for a new target face at any point before the relay starts in which he feels his target face has become shot out or lines can't be seen..

 

[flintcreek6412]

I kind of understand about the target faces getting shot out to a point.

As far as not wanting to move gear, well that’s just part of the sport. Sure, older competitors may struggle a bit but so do younger ones.

Where do we draw the line in competitive fairness? Not everyone can afford SEB rests, custom rifles or expensive scales. Maybe we all go to the sandbags and factory ammo

Not everyone has good eyes and spotting scopes for wind reading. Do we stop shooting if wind gets over 5mph to keep it even?

I could go on and on but personally I think we just leave it all alone.

It’s a national championship and it should be difficult on all levels

 

[Lbart]

I kind of understand about the target faces getting shot out to a point.
As far as not wanting to move gear, well that’s just part of the sport. Sure, older competitors may struggle a bit but so do younger ones.
Where do we draw the line in competitive fairness? Not everyone can afford SEB rests, custom rifles or expensive scales. Maybe we all go to the sandbags and factory ammo
Not everyone has good eyes and spotting scopes for wind reading. Do we stop shooting if wind gets over 5mph to keep it even?
I could go on and on but personally I think we just leave it all alone.
It’s a national championship and it should be difficult on all levels

Flintcreek6412,
Please read the petition. The reasons for changing to all 600 for the nationals are listed there. They are not to stop moving gear, although I like that (77 yrs). They are not to reduce the cost of shooters gear nor increase it. In fact I built a 6 dasher just for 300 yd, but I normally don’t use it, too much gear to haul around.

It has nothing to do with eyes or spotting scopes ( I can’t see flags well and don’t use a spotting scope). The wind is even for everyone no matter the range. The reason main reason for doing so is stated in your last sentence “It’s a national championship and it should be difficult on all levels”. It is much more difficult to score well at 600 than 300 for everyone. Young or old, rich or poor.
The reason for change are- increasing the challenge, saving range time, making matches more enjoyable, save clubs money by reducing the need for more target frames, different target faces, etc. If you have ever been responsible for planning and putting on a Major Championships (300-400 competitors) you would appreciate the amount of funds and work involved. The side benefits just might happen to favor older/weaker shooters. Is that a bad thing. Hope to see you in Raton for the Nat's. I'll be there for all 3 Nationals (15 days) 9 days of which involve 300 & 500 yards.

 

[Jennb]

I notice a lot of folks talking abut shooting out the X ring at 300/500/600. I have pulled a lot of those targets and I have to tell you, I have never had to replace the center for a single shooter. I only replace it when shooters change, if necessary, and that is not very often.

You obviously have not pulled for many of the shooters I have pulled for!

 

[Medic505]

that wasn't refaced

But you get that nasty ass glue all over your fingers......eeewwwww.

 

[DE-F-Open]

Flintcreek6412,
Please read the petition. The reasons for changing to all 600 for the nationals are listed there. They are not to stop moving gear, although I like that (77 yrs). They are not to reduce the cost of shooters gear nor increase it. In fact I built a 6 dasher just for 300 yd, but I normally don’t use it, too much gear to haul around.

It has nothing to do with eyes or spotting scopes ( I can’t see flags well and don’t use a spotting scope). The wind is even for everyone no matter the range. The reason main reason for doing so is stated in your last sentence “It’s a national championship and it should be difficult on all levels”. It is much more difficult to score well at 600 than 300 for everyone. Young or old, rich or poor.
The reason for change are- increasing the challenge, saving range time, making matches more enjoyable, save clubs money by reducing the need for more target frames, different target faces, etc. If you have ever been responsible for planning and putting on a Major Championships (300-400 competitors) you would appreciate the amount of funds and work involved. The side benefits just might happen to favor older/weaker shooters. Is that a bad thing. Hope to see you in Raton for the Nat's. I'll be there for all 3 Nationals (15 days) 9 days of which involve 300 & 500 yards.

Larry,

Well done & well said.

Thank you for educating us.

John

 

[Mark Walker in TX]

I support this very much and will sign and send. I'd include the "why I support detail", but my friend Larry already identified above the exact same reasons I'd list.

 

[jr600yd]

Ok I understand the pro’s and cons in this thread. But how does this effect shooter classifications, I mean what about local clubs who only have 300-500yd rages? If the nationals are all at 600 where does this leave the local clubs? How do you get classified as a HM midrange at 300 then have to shoot 600? Seems to me if the nationals are 600 only attendance for shorter range matches would go down and a lot of classified shooters would be in limbo. Let’s face it, it’s harder to get a high classification at longer distance.

I’m no spring chicken (71) but hauling your gear around is part of the game. If you can’t or won’t do it maybe benchrest is your game. If you shoot XTC you better get use to it. I say leave the 300, 500 yd lines alone.

 

[Immike]

This needs to be done for the hosting clubs and they should have the final say on this... period.

My hopes are for a separate midrange nationals someday and it would go like this ideally,.... 3 x20 @300 , 3 x 20 @500 , 3 x 20 @600 . Midrange is it’s own game and not quite the same as long with specialized equipment demands to handle this game. These are shooting games BTW and we must deal with the agenda necessities and as people of the sport accept these challenges, just like weather.

Just my thoughts on this, please don’t flame me for having them..
I don’t shoot the 300 & 500 , but those that do deserve a chance to be a national champion at it...
This match would gladly be accepted by several smaller clubs throughout the country and they can decide how best to run it...

 

[falconpilot]

They are separate Nationals right now..a person doesn't have to shoot one to shoot the other..

 

[RDA72927]

Ok I understand the pro’s and cons in this thread. But how does this effect shooter classifications,

Weather you have received your classification at 300 or 500 or 600, I believe a Mid-range classification is the same. There are only two classifications, Long-range and Mid-range. It's not tied to F-open or F-TR.

 

[XTR]

But how does this effect shooter classifications, I mean what about local clubs who only have 300-500yd rages? If the nationals are all at 600 where does this leave the local clubs?

This only effects the course of fire for the F Class Mid Range National Championship. It has nothing to do with your local matches or anyone's shooter classification.

I support this change, but not for the reasons of not moving equipment; I can deal with that, but for the rest of the reasons stated above. (hey, I'm a fan of fullbore)

 

[BT1]

This only effects the course of fire for the F Class Mid Range National Championship. It has nothing to do with your local matches or anyone's shooter classification.

I support this change, but not for the reasons of not moving equipment; I can deal with that, but for the rest of the reasons stated above. (hey, I'm a fan of fullbore)

+1 Good summary.

 

[jr600yd]

So you go to the nationals as a 300yd HM never having shot at 600 in your life. I like Immike’s idea better.