What's Wrong With My Shooting

[clunker]

Went to the range this morning and had a pretty good day. Only one problem. I can't seem to shoot accurately for more than three consecutive shots. I shot a box of 20 rounds, and the two pics show the first 16 of them (the other four were used to take out some clay pigeons). As you can see, the first three shots of each grouping are acceptable, but the fourth is always a flyer. Is the barrel getting too hot after three shots within 1 minute? Am I just too fatigued after holding position for too long and getting lazy with my form? Here are the stats if they help.

- Factory Tikka T3 in .223, 1/10" twist with about 300 rounds through the barrel
- Nosler Match Grade, ballistic tip, 60gr
- $50 Bushnell Banner 3-9x 40mm scope (cheap, but it works)
- 100 yds in prone position with 9" bipod
- 85 degree temp with a light breeze

 

[Bc'z]

Factory ammo be my guess.

 

[Ggmac]

Scope # 1
Ammo #2
Bipod #3
No rear bag #4

Need more powerful scope
Learn to reload or at min take many different types and brands of ammo
Use a front rest and rear bag
Make sure stock action screws are tight , nothing hitting the stock ( bolt handle , trigger , make sure scope is secure
Make sure barrel is free floated
Make adjustments to factory trigger for its lightest SAFE pull , better yet take it to a gunsmith ( licensed and insured and capable) for the trigger work

Fill out your profile page , more to follow

 

[T-shooter]

Are you loading only 4 rounds in the magazine? I had trouble with an AR15 doing the same thing. The last round was almost always a flier. The AR is a cheap Palmetto with a non-floating 16" barrel and 5.56 chamber. I was shooting 1" target dots off a bench at 100 yards. Every time the last shot went wild. I tried loading a dummy round and leaving it under the #5 round and it seemed to cure the problem. Possibly the follower acting on the last round? Most went high left.

 

[clunker]

Ggmac, good call on filling out my profile. Totally forgot about that.

I realize that the scope is cheap, the ammo isn't hand loaded, a bipod isn't ideal, and a rear bag would help tremendously. I'm intentionally trying to avoid using anything that cannot be used in the field. All of this practice is hopefully leading to putting some whitetail in the chest freezer. Eventually, I will lose the bipod in favor of a stick, I will be hand loading, and I will get a better scope. The real question mark is, why is it always the fourth shot.

T-shooter, I will definitely try using only the first three rounds in the magazine at the next range session. Seems like it should not make any difference in a bolt action, but it sounds like you had a similar issue and a dummy round solved the problem. Worth a try.

 

[JFrank]

Tikka s are a little different
1- the barrels unless a Varmint model are not free floating there is a x bridge support in the forearm this may or may not effect accuracy after warm up.
You may want to look into that"
2- the 223 models usually have a 1/8 twist either way that caliber should hardly recoil at all so I would suspect driver error if the action screws are tight and the barrel is not hot.
J

 

[Ggmac]

Ggmac, good call on filling out my profile. Totally forgot about that.

I realize that the scope is cheap, the ammo isn't hand loaded, a bipod isn't ideal, and a rear bag would help tremendously. I'm intentionally trying to avoid using anything that cannot be used in the field. All of this practice is hopefully leading to putting some whitetail in the chest freezer. Eventually, I will lose the bipod in favor of a stick, I will be hand loading, and I will get a better scope. The real question mark is, why is it always the fourth shot.

T-shooter, I will definitely try using only the first three rounds in the magazine at the next range session. Seems like it should not make any difference in a bolt action, but it sounds like you had a similar issue and a dummy round solved the problem. Worth a try.

I understand but will advise you to check the rifles best accuracy potential then add the human element.
A more powerful scope doesn't need to be expensive.
I started many new to shooting with a fixed 24x old BSA
Current ones aren't as good but better than a 3-9
Other that are ok = truglo 8-32
Tasco 6-24 and some newer Chinese 6-24
Mind you these are ok , not match quality but good enough to learn the basics of field shooting ,i.e. Adjusting parallax, focus then parallax again
All these scopes are under $100 some much under .
Don't think you need the best right away.
These will get you the power you need at 100-200 yds .
Try the smallest aim point you can see . Don't hit it hit near it .
Hitting it will increase the aiming point and mess with your group .
Use flags , even little orange ones from Home Depot .
Lots more

 

[rammac]

Check for copper fouling.

 

[clunker]

Jim, on any Tikka with synthetic stock, the barrel is not free-floating. All wood stocks are free-floating. I'm not willing to make changes on the brand new Creedmoor yet because it is still under warranty and has issues, but I may be willing to free float the .223 (the one responsible for today's session). There is some misinformation about twist rates on Tikkas in .223. Online sources suggest that it only came in 1/8" or 1/12", but mine is stamped with 1/10" on the barrel, and I have found several others on forums with the same stamp. Either way, it still shoots a 69gr Sierra Matchking as accurately as a 53gr Superformance Varmint, so today's 60gr Noslers are within spec.

Ggmac, thank you for the scope suggestions. I was expecting to pay at least $250 for a decent scope. When I bought the .223, I didn't have much left for a scope, so I opted for a cheap one with good reviews. Considering the $50 price tag, it has delivered. However, my friend put a $350 12x Vortex on his new .308, and the Vortex clarity is in a different league. My Bushnell does not have parallax adjustment, so you have to be perfectly consistent with your eye placement. It sucks, but it was probably good training. Eventually, the .223 will be my close range varmint destroyer while I upgrade to the Creedmoor for medium-sized game, and the CM will need better glass to do the rifle justice.

rammac, you are spot on. Being a rookie, I did some online research about how to clean a rifle. I can't believe how much bad information is floating around out there. My groups were getting way larger than they should, but once I discovered that the bore needed about 7 cleaning sessions over three days with good solvents to completely remove the copper buildup, I have changed my ways. I guarantee zero copper or carbon before shooting today.

 

[JFrank]

Jim, on any Tikka with synthetic stock, the barrel is not free-floating. All wood stocks are free-floating. I'm not willing to make changes on the brand new Creedmoor yet because it is still under warranty and has issues, but I may be willing to free float the .223 (the one responsible for today's session). There is some misinformation about twist rates on Tikkas in .223. Online sources suggest that it only came in 1/8" or 1/12", but mine is stamped with 1/10" on the barrel, and I have found several others on forums with the same stamp. Either way, it still shoots a 69gr Sierra Matchking as accurately as a 53gr Superformance Varmint, so today's 60gr Noslers are within spec.

Ggmac, thank you for the scope suggestions. I was expecting to pay at least $250 for a decent scope. When I bought the .223, I didn't have much left for a scope, so I opted for a cheap one with good reviews. Considering the $50 price tag, it has delivered. However, my friend put a $350 12x Vortex on his new .308, and the Vortex clarity is in a different league. My Bushnell does not have parallax adjustment, so you have to be perfectly consistent with your eye placement. It sucks, but it was probably good training. Eventually, the .223 will be my close range varmint destroyer while I upgrade to the Creedmoor for medium-sized game, and the CM will need better glass to do the rifle justice.

rammac, you are spot on. Being a rookie, I did some online research about how to clean a rifle. I can't believe how much bad information is floating around out there. My groups were getting way larger than they should, but once I discovered that the bore needed about 7 cleaning sessions over three days with good solvents to completely remove the copper buildup, I have changed my ways. I guarantee zero copper or carbon before shooting today.

You are correct on the wood stocks being free floating I'd forgotten about those'
1/10 twist is very interesting the people at Sako must have mid weight Bullets in mind. Are you familiar with Tikka Performance/Mountain Tactical in Montana?
They are all things Tikka as well as a project 223 in a chassis they routinely shoot steel at 1K
Good People /I love my Tikka also I have not free floated it shoots great as is! The only weird thing for me was the factory scope rings
J

 

[alinwa]

"What's wrong with my shooting?????"Went to the range.... more than three consecutive shots......

Nothing is wrong with your shooting.

Your gun doesn't shoot.

Ya really can't play good pool with a broom, nor good ping pong with a frying pan.

jus' sayin'

 

[Dusty Stevens]

If its always the last shot its you. Its not the gun, its not a dirty barrel nor is it your scope or ammo or even your rest. If your last shot is a flier its you and i am positive about it. You can dance around problems all week but if its the last shot its usually because you hurried on a group trying to keep it small. If its the first shot its your rest or barrel too clean. If they start walking away its your rifle heating up and pushing them. Sometimes you just gotta stop and think a bit.

 

[Someoldguy]

If your point of aim was the same, the picture looks considerably different if you overlap all the targets.

 

[grovey]

If you're serious you need to learn how to reload. Otherwise all you can do is keep buying different brands of factory fodder that are compatible with your 10 twist to find out what it likes. A nickel says there ain't nothing wrong with the rifle.

 

[SBS]

Sporter barrels are notorious for the point of impact walking after heating up. Some do and some don't; usually the barrels that are straightened are the offenders. To check for this, get out early when no or very little wind, shoot your 3 shots and let the barrel cool to ambient temp. and do it again. Also, check to see if your groups are in the same place from day to day. If not, either bedding or scope. Also remember that the more shots in a group, the larger the group gets.

 

[JFrank]

If its always the last shot its you. Its not the gun, its not a dirty barrel nor is it your scope or ammo or even your rest. If your last shot is a flier its you and i am positive about it. You can dance around problems all week but if its the last shot its usually because you hurried on a group trying to keep it small. If its the first shot its your rest or barrel too clean. If they start walking away its your rifle heating up and pushing them. Sometimes you just gotta stop and think a bit.

Dusty is once again spot on!
Tikka rifles are good shooters no matter what anyone says otherwise. My Grandson shoots mine under a minute at 600 with FGMM ammo and a SWFA scope
I was very close to buying a 243 Tikka a while back just because they shoot so good.
Follow Dusty for best results "
J

 

[Ggmac]

Jim, on any Tikka with synthetic stock, the barrel is not free-floating. All wood stocks are free-floating. I'm not willing to make changes on the brand new Creedmoor yet because it is still under warranty and has issues, but I may be willing to free float the .223 (the one responsible for today's session). There is some misinformation about twist rates on Tikkas in .223. Online sources suggest that it only came in 1/8" or 1/12", but mine is stamped with 1/10" on the barrel, and I have found several others on forums with the same stamp. Either way, it still shoots a 69gr Sierra Matchking as accurately as a 53gr Superformance Varmint, so today's 60gr Noslers are within spec.

Ggmac, thank you for the scope suggestions. I was expecting to pay at least $250 for a decent scope. When I bought the .223, I didn't have much left for a scope, so I opted for a cheap one with good reviews. Considering the $50 price tag, it has delivered. However, my friend put a $350 12x Vortex on his new .308, and the Vortex clarity is in a different league. My Bushnell does not have parallax adjustment, so you have to be perfectly consistent with your eye placement. It sucks, but it was probably good training. Eventually, the .223 will be my close range varmint destroyer while I upgrade to the Creedmoor for medium-sized game, and the CM will need better glass to do the rifle justice.

rammac, you are spot on. Being a rookie, I did some online research about how to clean a rifle. I can't believe how much bad information is floating around out there. My groups were getting way larger than they should, but once I discovered that the bore needed about 7 cleaning sessions over three days with good solvents to completely remove the copper buildup, I have changed my ways. I guarantee zero copper or carbon before shooting today.

Parallax isn't about eye relief or box . Parallax is the apparent movement of the crosshairs at dif ranges . Cheek weld should be consistent. Most without adjustable objectives are set for parallax free at 100 yds .
It gets complicated fast . The numbering on the scopes with adjustable objectives are just for reference. I'll adjust parallax a few times a day , as the light , humidity and mostly as my eyes get tired . Change parallax the maybe need to change focus . If you lived near me a few days at the range would beat weeks trying to understand what I'm trying to describe.
Weaver target 36 X can usually be had for about $250-$300 used .
Older Tasco and BSA 24 or 36 fixed are a real good starter . I still use a couple of Tasco and BSA.

 

[K22]

Tikka did make a run of 10" twist 223's.
Tikka's are good shooters as a rule. I have three - all good.

Don't expect too much consistency if you going to be using factor ammo and buying different brands / and different lots of the same brand.
Don't expect too much consistency from a sporter contour barrel shooting from a hot barrel.
Don't expect too much consistency from a really cheap scope.
Unless you're very skilled and experienced, don't expect too much consistency shooting from a bipod in the prone position.

To rule out shooter error shoot a five shot group at 100 yards off the bench using a front and rear rest. Allow the barrel to cool between shots. Label each shot, i.e. 1, 2, 3 etc. to get an idea where shoots are trending as you shoot. Ideally you want a clover leaf group with equal horizontal and vertical.

 

[drover]

Yes, Tikka T-3's in 223 were made for a time with a 1-10 twist, I have one. In the past I have owned a T-3 with with a 1-8 twist, and two others with 1-10 twist. As an aside - my favorite twist for 223's is the 1-10 twist it seems give the best accuracy light to mid-weight bullets, I currently own two Cooper 223's and the Tikka with 1-10 and load development and accuracy has been outstanding from all of them.

However to get back to the OP's problem - IMO you are chasing your tail. Beg, borrow, or steal a good front rest, a good rear bag, find a solid stable bench to shoot from - at that point you can establish what your rifle is capable of whether using factory loads or hand-loads. Shooting prone from a bipod is difficult at best, bipods are notoriously sensitive to shoulder pressure and extremely difficult to hold the same for shot after shot. If you have the same issues when shooting from a solid position I will be surprised.

My Tikka T-3, 223 Rem, 1-10 twist - 5 shot group under near perfect conditions, Redfield 4-12 scope, 26.3 grs VV-133, 40 gr Nosler BT.

Can I do this every time - No! But it will keep them under 1/2" all of the time.

If the image does not show right click your mouse and click - open link in new tab

 

[clunker]

If its always the last shot its you. Its not the gun, its not a dirty barrel nor is it your scope or ammo or even your rest. If your last shot is a flier its you and i am positive about it. You can dance around problems all week but if its the last shot its usually because you hurried on a group trying to keep it small. If its the first shot its your rest or barrel too clean. If they start walking away its your rifle heating up and pushing them. Sometimes you just gotta stop and think a bit.

Thank all of you for the great feedback. Dusty is on track for exactly what I suspected. When you see a good group of three through the scope, you want to empty that last round from the magazine, so you can show your buddy how badass your Tikka is compared to his Weatherby Vanguard. It is easy to lose your concentration and break form when you are excited about the next shot. Dusty gets extra points, just because he has the mysterious word "COVFEFE" in his profile.

A few other points. Soil at the range is rock-hard and lumpy. It is difficult to find a comfortable prone position, and my elbows still hurt, but I don't expect that anyone is going to roll out some plush red carpet for me when I'm hunting either. Every grouping was taken from a different position with one exception. Someoldguy was right that the overlap is not consistent. My groups started with the bottom target in the pics, and my last grouping was the top. Since the first group was low right, I adjusted the scope and shot from the same position, and you'll notice that two holes from the next grouping are dead center. On the third shot in that group, I pulled it and knew the instant I squeezed the trigger. The fourth in that group was the proverbial flyer.

I prefer to allow some time for the barrel to cool between shots, but you lose position and composure each time you wait. In my next session, I think I will try 10 shot groups. If the 10th shot is a flyer, then I know Dusty was right.