Rapid Fire Match Challenge Issue

[Bart B.]

Years ago at a match in Wyoming, the winds were strong, gusty and variable. Target frames did not stay still. Worst conditions were during the 200 yard sitting rapid fire stage.

At the award ceremony, the sitting rapid fire match winner was announced. Then someone shouted a challenge. The announced winner's target frame was steadied by two target pullers on each side. No other targets were so stabilized and moved much more in such winds.

The referee said the challenge period had expired. The shooter didn't refuse the award after learning he was given an unfair advantage.

 

[Regnar]

And????????

 

[Bart B.]

Nothing happened in spite of issues raised by other competitors, me included.

Just wanted to share an interesting event at a match. I've seen several.

 

[jr600yd]

If your on the line shooting the rapid how do you know someone was steading the ta get?

 

[Mr. Ten-X]

Could never accept an award unless I'd won it fair and square, but that is how I was raised.

 

[Regnar]

Why did you wait past the allowed chanlge period to do so?

Personally I think challenging something while the guy is on the podium acceptin an award is a low life move. If there was a legitimate challenge than go the appropiate process.

I wa s raised not to make excuses for loosing

 

[Bart B.]

Why did you wait past the allowed chanlge period to do so?

If your on the line shooting the rapid how do you know someone was steading the ta get?

I didn't challenge it. I did not know about it until the award ceremony a couple hours after the match was fired and someone else first challenged it. My "issue" was about how it was handled as stated in post #3.

 

[UltraBR30]

Years ago at a match in Wyoming...

What year? What match?

 

[Bart B.]

What year? What match?

Around 1990 to 1993 at the range near Douglas, as I remember. The NMC match on a Saturday.

A much worse event happened at the 1983 NRA Nationals High Power Matches regarding a USN Team member caught falsifying his 200 yard match score. I was there.

 

[corning]

Around 1990 to 1993 at the range near Douglas, as I remember. The NMC match on a Saturday.

A much worse event happened at the 1983 NRA Nationals High Power Matches regarding a USN Team member caught falsifying his 200 yard match score. I was there.

I knew the scorer. The scorer did the right thing by challenging the Navy shooter's score

 

[corning]

It's amazing how the big name shooters handle adversity when shooting. If you have a lot of years in the game, you will get exposure to a lot of different situations.

1) Rapid fires at 200 in the National matches in the 1980's. A well known HM had a misfired, and cleared the faulty round. Because it was always done in practice, and, unfortunately, it carried over to the match. If the shooter had not cleared the misfire, they would have gotten an alibi. Instead 10 points were lost. Upbeat shooter, and just went with it. I was the scorer.

2) 600 slow fire at the National matches, again in the 1980's. Again, I was scoring. Another well known HM told me that they shoot fast, and to stay alert, and call out the shots. I did that, and kept up with the shooter. I called a 9, the shooter said 10, and I repeated 9. They kept shooting, and did not challenge. The shooter ended up with a 197 or 198, and a pile of X's.

My point is, you cannot be bullied by the shooter while you are scoring, and, as a scorer, it is important that you stay on top of things.

 

[Bart B.]

Reference my post #6. ALL involved showed piss poor attitude. you were obviously EFFECTED by this because your bring it up an event almost 30 years ago where l, im guessing here, someone beat you, you heard a rumor, filed a complaint past the time to do so and you are still complaining about it, in an unsolicited post looking for peoe to jump on your band wagon.

The only thong worse is throwing a military team under the bus eith an alagation of cheating and not backing it up.

I call bullshit.

You could not be more wrong guessing what happened. I was not who challenged, as I mentioned before, so vent your emotions elsewhere.

Now I will decide whether or not to report your ## remark that's against forum guidelines, I may "challenge" your post.

 

[Bart B.]

I knew the scorer. The scorer did the right thing by challenging the Navy shooter's score

The scorekeeper scored him then later that day saw the wrong score on the stat office scoreboard. Then all hell broke loose.

That USN team member almost got a dishonorable discharge but was not allowed to compete for several years. Got out then stole some of Gale McMillan's stocks and moulds, sent to prison for several years. A Navy SEAL who made bad judgements.

 

[corning]

The only thong worse is throwing a military team under the bus eith an alagation of cheating and not backing it up.

I don't understand how the USN team got thrown under the bus with an allegation of cheating. and what was not backed up.

I remember the situation very clearly, and like everyone else, was appalled that something like that would happen. Like everyone else, the scorer went to the "wailing wall" to look at the days scores. In looking at the scores, the scorer recognized the shooter near the top of the standings, but did not recognize the score posted as being the score shot. The score, and standing was challenged (within the challenge period). I am sure there are very few people that know what happened when the shooter was confronted with the anomaly, but what came out of it was that the shooter had a second score card. The shooter falsified the scores, and submitted the second card, rather than the actual/original card. In the end, the military team did the right thing. The shooter was DQ'ed, and I remember an absence of the USN team for a few years after the incident.

 

[corning]

The scorekeeper scored him then later that day saw the wrong score on the stat office scoreboard. Then all hell broke loose.

That USN team member almost got a dishonorable discharge but was not allowed to compete for several years. Got out then stole some of Gale McMillan's stocks and moulds, sent to prison for several years. A Navy SEAL who made bad judgements.

It was a different scorer. Beyond that, I would be careful mentioning names...

 

[Bart B.]

It was a different scorer. Beyond that, I would be careful mentioning names...

Post updated.

 

[Bart B.]

The shooter was DQ'ed, and I remember an absence of the USN team for a few years after the incident.

The USN team's occasional absence thereafter was due to other issues unrelated.

 

[johnfred1965]

My wife tells me I hang onto things, but you have me beat by a mile!! Do they even make ammo for the guns you used back then?

 

[ryanjay11]

So. much. drama.

 

[Bart B.]

My wife tells me I hang onto things, but you have me beat by a mile!! Do they even make ammo for the guns you used back then?

Not very often. If we didn't have any ammo, we would walk downrange then poke a hole in the target where we wanted it. Took a long time as 20 round trips to the target took a while for a 20 poke slow poke match. We ran to the target in a rapid poke match then, depending on rifle type, poked 2 or 5 holes with one poker then grabbed another poker to poke the remaining 8 or 5 holes.

If it was a service rifle match, our hole pokers were gauged to verify them being 30 caliber. And they had to weigh 4.5 pounds as specified in the trigger-poker weight rule.

If someone hadn't sobered up from partying the night before and crossed over to another target then poked a hole in it, the crossfire rules no longer applied and the target would then be subject to the crosswalk rule. The competitor could take the hole poked in the higher scoring ring