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22-250 groups fell apart! How?

Okay Fellas, here is an update. Lots-a-data.
Thanks you for everyone that has suggested things to analyse.
The response here sounds like the barrel is shot out, but for good measure I am going to try several of the things listed here to rule them out. If its still not grouping I'll move on the getting a barrel. Plus I have 900 rounds loaded for this rifle and ready for Montana P-dog hunting this year.

Seating Depth
This was a big issue and a long story. Short story is I got the seating set right and groups got better. Long story is I changed from measuring the OAL ( to tip of bullet) last year to measuring with an Hornady ogive tool this year. When I changed I didn't remeasure the seating depth correctly with the Hornady chamber tool. I was seating the bullets 0.005 into the lands. Luckily I didn't have any pressure issues. I correctly seated the bullets to 0.010 off the lands and shot a couple series last night. The groups got much better. See a couple targets below.

Reloading
V-max bullets - Yes, these are a different lot of bullets. Do i Need to re-start the load development process? I'm not looking for one hole groups from this rifle, but would like to see 1inch-ish. Specially since I know it can do it.
Powder - I am also into a new lot of Varget powder. This is the second 8lb jug. You will see in the targets below a batch one and batch two, these are the powder jugs. Again, Do I need to re-start load development to get 1 inch-ish groups?

Light in Barrel
I shined a light from the muzzle and and could see the rifling up to the chamber. Nothing looked missing, flattened or scorched from what I could tell.

Crown ???
Upon inspection of the crown I found a ding in it. See Photo. What is the best way to address this? Can I lightly file this spot or should I get a chamfer toll like this article? brownells-video-shows-how-to-cut-chamfer-on-barrel-crown Can I try the file as see if it works? I could have a neighbor chuck it in his lath and cut a chamfer as well.

Next steps
Last night I started to clean the bore. First with a powder residue remover then with Gunslick Foaming bore Cleaner. Once the bore is clean and have possibly fixed the crown issue I will shoot this rifle again. I will use a tight fit patch. I typically use a Its nice having a your shooting range be in your back yard.

Photos:

Here is the rifle for reference. Its a basic use and abuse rifle.
20180604_215342.jpg

Here is the Crown of the rifle. Notice the dent near the top
20180604_215917.jpg

Here is the first target, this is with the improper seated rounds and the standard group I was getting when things went bad. Note, this is the first keg of powder. Squares are 1/2" with bold 1"
20180604_222106.jpg

Here is first keg of powder with the proper seating depth. 5th shot I pulled way to the right off the paper. (oops) This is getting closer to what the rifle used to do.
20180604_222154.jpg

Here is the 2nd keg of powder with the proper seating depth. Groups opened up more than I would like here.
20180604_222254.jpg
 
I doubt any of those factors would cause a 22-250 with that many rounds on it to go south in the manner of yours.
 
Still wishing upon a star ! Buy a dang barrel and get back to shooting .
Any one that shoots a 22-250 and hasn't tried the 38 gr of h-380 ( for wich the powder was named for ) hasn't been around shooting enough


1967, my first 22-250, Remington varmint 700, first load to try was 38 of H380 with a 52 Sierra HPBT match bullet, Norma brass, forget which primers, used COAL dimension, 3/8 groups at 100. It was a groundhog gun and didn't go any further with load development. The fur flew many times with that rifle.:D IIRC, after 1000 or so rounds, it started to go south.
 
1967, my first 22-250, Remington varmint 700, first load to try was 38 of H380 with a 52 Sierra HPBT match bullet, Norma brass, forget which primers, used COAL dimension, 3/8 groups at 100. It was a groundhog gun and didn't go any further with load development. The fur flew many times with that rifle.:D IIRC, after 1000 or so rounds, it started to go south.
It's why Bruce Hodgon named the powder H-380
 
Still wishing upon a star ! Buy a dang barrel and get back to shooting .
Any one that shoots a 22-250 and hasn't tried the 38 gr of h-380 ( for wich the powder was named for ) hasn't been around shooting enough

Thanks Ggmac. Lets call this a learning experience. Can't hurt to try and I can only gain knowledge. I'll give the H380 a try next time around, maybe with a new barrel.
 
Uh , you haven't tried H-380 ? Look up its history . Barrels are like tires are to an automobile , they wear out . Maybe a better , barrels are like gasoline to an automobile. The barrels have about a .5 -1 second life span , figure the barrel time for each shot fired you'll see how fast it goes . So gasoline is a better example .
 
Gun is out of bed, take that to the bank. Float the mag box, and have the center screw only fingernail tight.

As the barrels get long in the throat, go to a 55g Sierra semi point then a 63g Sierra. These bullets have more bearing surface and shoot very well in guns with long throats.

Your barrel is carbon fouled, take that to the bank. Clean with good bronze bristle brushes and JB, go 10 strokes, reapply the JB every 10 strokes, put 60 strokes through the barrel before you stop.

Ding in your crown is not helping.

Are you shooting mixed brands of brass?

Are you shooting off a Bi Pod, do you have a rear bag, shooting off the hood of the truck?

Have you checked the length of the brass to see if it needs trimming. Long brass, will crimp the end of the case causing pressure spikes.

I have shot some decent groups with 55g Sierra semi points using 38g of H380 in barrels that have 3500 rounds on them, but carbon fouling will kill a barrel real quick.

Some years ago, we got into a pile of Jack Rabbits. I had to wind 0000 steel wool in new bronze bristle brushes and scrub with JB to get all the carbon out.

This inexpensive tool will help you with your crown:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Brass-muzz...480270&hash=item1c9c6a3b2a:g:PaoAAMXQDjhQ6W2T

Best wishes
 
Gun is out of bed, take that to the bank. Float the mag box, and have the center screw only fingernail tight.

As the barrels get long in the throat, go to a 55g Sierra semi point then a 63g Sierra. These bullets have more bearing surface and shoot very well in guns with long throats.

Your barrel is carbon fouled, take that to the bank. Clean with good bronze bristle brushes and JB, go 10 strokes, reapply the JB every 10 strokes, put 60 strokes through the barrel before you stop.

Ding in your crown is not helping.

Are you shooting mixed brands of brass?

Are you shooting off a Bi Pod, do you have a rear bag, shooting off the hood of the truck?

Have you checked the length of the brass to see if it needs trimming. Long brass, will crimp the end of the case causing pressure spikes.

I have shot some decent groups with 55g Sierra semi points using 38g of H380 in barrels that have 3500 rounds on them, but carbon fouling will kill a barrel real quick.

Some years ago, we got into a pile of Jack Rabbits. I had to wind 0000 steel wool in new bronze bristle brushes and scrub with JB to get all the carbon out.

This inexpensive tool will help you with your crown:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Brass-muzz...480270&hash=item1c9c6a3b2a:g:PaoAAMXQDjhQ6W2T

Best wishes


Thanks Akleyman.
I will check out the bed, I plan to actually bed this rifle this summer.

I am shooting 50g V-max because this is a 1-14 twist. Will at 1-14 stabilize the 63g Sierras? I know it won't stabilize 53 gr hornadys, or at lease the hornady 10th edition manual says. it has been okay with with 55g but has been best with 50s. I still a fairly deep seat in the case mouth.

I think I have gotten the carbon out. I have done over 100 passes with sweets. Do you think the JB will do more? I am also using the foaming cleaner this week. If the foam cleaner does not work I will try the wire brush idea. Can't hurt if it won't shoot anyways.

Brass is all Hornady. All 1200 rounds of by brass have been freshly trimmed. This is the first firing since trimming.

I am shooting from a bench with front and rear sandbags. I won't say I am the best shooter but I have had this rifle do 1 moa groups pretty consistently in the past.

Thanks
 
It sounds like you have ruled out the things that can come loose and cause sudden loss of accuracy. Regarding bedding, have you checked closely for witness marks on the stock and action which would indicate a stress point?

To remove carbon you must use a wire brush to effectively get down into the grooves. Patches and chemicals can clean the lands to achieve a mirror appearance that fools you, while the grooves are still loaded with carbon. I was fooled in this manner until I got a bore scope, and 500 wire brush strokes later learned a lesson.
 
Thanks Ggmac. Lets call this a learning experience. Can't hurt to try and I can only gain knowledge. I'll give the H380 a try next time around, maybe with a new barrel.

Pathetic groups from a 22-250.Those are not groups those are a pattern, like a shotgun. Look at the bore from the chamber end not the muzzle, when clean. Varget perfomed well in my 40X with Varget. Five shot all touching @100 yds. As for the crown odds are if it's not screwed up now it will be if you do it yourself. Job for a trained gunsmith. There is a learning curve and it come at a price. My guess that a new barrel will cure the problem.
 
Gun is out of bed, take that to the bank. Float the mag box, and have the center screw only fingernail tight.

As the barrels get long in the throat, go to a 55g Sierra semi point then a 63g Sierra. These bullets have more bearing surface and shoot very well in guns with long throats.

Your barrel is carbon fouled, take that to the bank. Clean with good bronze bristle brushes and JB, go 10 strokes, reapply the JB every 10 strokes, put 60 strokes through the barrel before you stop.

Ding in your crown is not helping.

Are you shooting mixed brands of brass?

Are you shooting off a Bi Pod, do you have a rear bag, shooting off the hood of the truck?

Have you checked the length of the brass to see if it needs trimming. Long brass, will crimp the end of the case causing pressure spikes.

I have shot some decent groups with 55g Sierra semi points using 38g of H380 in barrels that have 3500 rounds on them, but carbon fouling will kill a barrel real quick.

Some years ago, we got into a pile of Jack Rabbits. I had to wind 0000 steel wool in new bronze bristle brushes and scrub with JB to get all the carbon out.

This inexpensive tool will help you with your crown:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Brass-muzz...480270&hash=item1c9c6a3b2a:g:PaoAAMXQDjhQ6W2T

Best wishes

Great post and good advice here.
 
Great post and good advice here.

It is good stuff.
Ackleyman and I have been pm-ing to sort a couple things out. I am finding a lot more carbon fouling than I thought was possible and the internal magazine was jambed up. I'm hoping to get a couple rounds through the gun this weekend and have another update. I might just get the rifle through another P-dog trip, then start looking for a new barrel.
 
It is good stuff.
Ackleyman and I have been pm-ing to sort a couple things out. I am finding a lot more carbon fouling than I thought was possible and the internal magazine was jambed up. I'm hoping to get a couple rounds through the gun this weekend and have another update. I might just get the rifle through another P-dog trip, then start looking for a new barrel.

That barrel has to be close to it’s end of useful life.
 
Gun is out of bed, take that to the bank. Float the mag box, and have the center screw only fingernail tight.

This man is wise.

The KEY to making the VT shoot is trimming the mag box to where it is loose, and NEVER tighten the center screw. On my recent 243 I acquired I bedded my front end which is pretty easy, and it makes the action fit super tight and precise . I did not bed the rear tang to a tight fit. I was told to leave it where it can move.

My 243 shoots shockingly well, and my 22-250 from back in the say would shoot under 1/2 a LOT at almost 4000 fps and took, hundreds of Ghogs.
 

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