22-250 groups fell apart! How?

[Jack Master]

Hey fellas, I'm new to the group. Love all the information.

I shoot a Ruger M77 mark II chambered in 22-250 for prairie dog hunting. I have had great accuracy with it for the last 3 years. It/I have shot 1 inch groups at 100yds very consistently and that accuracy has carried out to 300 yds with 3 to 4 inch groups. This spring I shot 3 groups at 1/2" at 100 yards, it was awesome. A week later, I cannot get the rifle to shoot less that 4 inch groups at 100 yards. I cannot figure out what happened. I have had other people shoot the rifle as well and the experienced guys are getting 2 1/2 to 3 inch groups at best. Below is more detail about what i have done to rectify the issue with no success. Any ideas on what to do next or why it might not be grouping? Thanks

Handloads
Brass - Hornady 2-3 times fired
Bullet - 50gr V-max
Powder - 36 gr Varget
Velocity - 3750 fps
Full body sized
seat .010 off lands (to ogive)

I have:
1. Tightened all the screws, action to stock, scope base, rings to base, rings to scope. - no change.
2. Changed the scope. - no change
3. Cleaned barrel with sweets to remove all copper fouling - slightly better results.

Next step - bedding the action. Any other ideas?

Could the barrel be shot out? I have about 2500 rounds through the barrel (factory).

 

[hogpatrol]

2500 through a factory barrel in 22-250 for PDs? I'd say you've been living on borrowed time for quite a while. Time for a new barrel.

 

[Idaho-Lefty]

2500 through a factory barrel in 22-250 for PDs? I'd say you've been living on borrowed time for quite a while. Time for a new barrel.

YUP,.. THIS ^^^^ Get a NEW 1-9 or, 1-12 twist, Barrel ! A 1-9 twist will shoot from 55 to 73 grain Bullets !

 

[gambleone]

Hey fellas, I'm new to the group. Love all the information.

I shoot a Ruger M77 mark II chambered in 22-250 for prairie dog hunting. I have had great accuracy with it for the last 3 years. It/I have shot 1 inch groups at 100yds very consistently and that accuracy has carried out to 300 yds with 3 to 4 inch groups. This spring I shot 3 groups at 1/2" at 100 yards, it was awesome. A week later, I cannot get the rifle to shoot less that 4 inch groups at 100 yards. I cannot figure out what happened. I have had other people shoot the rifle as well and the experienced guys are getting 2 1/2 to 3 inch groups at best. Below is more detail about what i have done to rectify the issue with no success. Any ideas on what to do next or why it might not be grouping? Thanks

Handloads
Brass - Hornady 2-3 times fired
Bullet - 50gr V-max
Powder - 36 gr Varget
Velocity - 3750 fps
Full body sized
seat .010 off lands (to ogive)

I have:
1. Tightened all the screws, action to stock, scope base, rings to base, rings to scope. - no change.
2. Changed the scope. - no change
3. Cleaned barrel with sweets to remove all copper fouling - slightly better results.

Next step - bedding the action. Any other ideas?

Could the barrel be shot out? I have about 2500 rounds through the barrel (factory).

Did this group change happen gradually or suddenly? Were the 50 gr vmax the same lot of the better groups you were shooting? Same primer? These are some things that can alter your group but all in all I have to agree with hogpatrol. Lotta rounds for a factory barrel.

 

[B23]

You say you are seating them 10 thou off but was that measurement taken 2500 rounds ago or recently? If it was some time ago, it's doubtful your OAL is still only 10 thou off the lands but if you've been chasing the lands this whole time and seating the bullet out further and further to keep that 10 thou off OAL measurement, it's likely there just isn't much throat left and it is time for a new tube.

If you got 2500 rounds of great accuracy from a 22-250, I think you definitely got your moneys worth out of that barrel.

 

[long40shot]

A similar thing happened to me with my old Remington. I thought it needed a good cleaning. In the midst of cleaning i noticed the first inch or two ahead of the chamber was very rough when i pushed a patch through. I shined a light in the barrel and looked, the area ahead of the chamber was totally torched. The rifle now wears a new Krieger.

 

[Jack Master]

Did this group change happen gradually or suddenly? Were the 50 gr vmax the same lot of the better groups you were shooting? Same primer?

Gamblone - This happened within 20 rounds. I though that was sudden. I will double check the lots on the V-max bullets, might have some merit. It is the same lot of primers. Could a different lot of bullets change groups from 1 inch to 4 inch groups at 100yds?

B23 - it has been a while since I have checked the seating depth, I will give this another look and report back.

Long40shot - I noticed during cleaning the first inch or 3 infront of the chamber was much tighter than the rest of the bore. Patches had to be pushed just a bit harder. I'll try the light thing and see what I can see.

 

[#40Fan]

Take a good look at the crown too. Make sure it didn't get dinged up.

 

[WyleWD]

Gamblone - This happened within 20 rounds. I though that was sudden. I will double check the lots on the V-max bullets, might have some merit. It is the same lot of primers. Could a different lot of bullets change groups from 1 inch to 4 inch groups at 100yds?

B23 - it has been a while since I have checked the seating depth, I will give this another look and report back.

Long40shot - I noticed during cleaning the first inch or 3 infront of the chamber was much tighter than the rest of the bore. Patches had to be pushed just a bit harder. I'll try the light thing and see what I can see.

I had a 243 barrel go out within 20 rounds. If you have access to a boresope, or know someone who has one that owes you a favor, take a look at the bore both before and after you clean it. You've gotten a lot of good life out of that barrel so you've taken good care of it to have it last this long, but you might want to have some Pepto-Bismol handy when you look at that bore. And I say that hoping that I'm wrong. WD

 

[Rsadams]

As a final thing before you go to a new barrel... Get some gun slick foaming bore cleaner , foam it well and let it sit so it can drain a little out the barrel... Let it sit for a long while , see if blue comes out... Even if not hit it with a brush how ever many times you want , rinse the brush off with water when done to get the cleaner off the brass brush , then run a few patches through it.... Then re foam and let it sit for at least 30 minutes , brush again , patch it clean , light coat of oil , one or two dry patches and take it it and shoot it...

 

[Idaho-Lefty]

You might also try brushing with, a TIGHT fitting Patch over, a Brush, liberally pasted with, JB's ! About, 20-30 strokes of JB Bore cleaner over patch/ brush AFTER, removing the Copper ( first 6-8 inches of Bbl. ) then,.. re-clean, oil, dry.
Then, re-adjust your Bullets seating, further "out" as suggested above,..this "combo" MAY buy you a few more,.. accurate rounds!
On New barrels/ New Factory Rifles, I do the above Patch/Brush/ JB's, to smooth out, the Throat and bbl Lands, to "Break in" New barrels ! Easy cleaning, very little Copper "sticks" afterword and Bbl's "shoot", GREAT ! Good Luck !

 

[gambleone]

This happened within 20 rounds. I though that was sudden. I will double check the lots on the V-max bullets, might have some merit. It is the same lot of primers. Could a different lot of bullets change groups from 1 inch to 4 inch groups at 100yds?

No it shouldn't change that much. Try what the last two shooters suggested also. You may have developed a little carbon ring in there to.

 

[Ggmac]

Hey fellas, I'm new to the group. Love all the information.

I shoot a Ruger M77 mark II chambered in 22-250 for prairie dog hunting. I have had great accuracy with it for the last 3 years. It/I have shot 1 inch groups at 100yds very consistently and that accuracy has carried out to 300 yds with 3 to 4 inch groups. This spring I shot 3 groups at 1/2" at 100 yards, it was awesome. A week later, I cannot get the rifle to shoot less that 4 inch groups at 100 yards. I cannot figure out what happened. I have had other people shoot the rifle as well and the experienced guys are getting 2 1/2 to 3 inch groups at best. Below is more detail about what i have done to rectify the issue with no success. Any ideas on what to do next or why it might not be grouping? Thanks

Handloads
Brass - Hornady 2-3 times fired
Bullet - 50gr V-max
Powder - 36 gr Varget
Velocity - 3750 fps
Full body sized
seat .010 off lands (to ogive)

I have:
1. Tightened all the screws, action to stock, scope base, rings to base, rings to scope. - no change.
2. Changed the scope. - no change
3. Cleaned barrel with sweets to remove all copper fouling - slightly better results.

Next step - bedding the action. Any other ideas?

Could the barrel be shot out? I have about 2500 rounds through the barrel (factory).

Could it be shot out = YES YES YES
Life is too short to expect it to be good again . It's down hill from here , probably a while ago . Don't waste time and money by not replacing the barrel .

 

[284winner]

Hey fellas, I'm new to the group. Love all the information.

I shoot a Ruger M77 mark II chambered in 22-250 for prairie dog hunting. I have had great accuracy with it for the last 3 years. It/I have shot 1 inch groups at 100yds very consistently and that accuracy has carried out to 300 yds with 3 to 4 inch groups. This spring I shot 3 groups at 1/2" at 100 yards, it was awesome. A week later, I cannot get the rifle to shoot less that 4 inch groups at 100 yards. I cannot figure out what happened. I have had other people shoot the rifle as well and the experienced guys are getting 2 1/2 to 3 inch groups at best. Below is more detail about what i have done to rectify the issue with no success. Any ideas on what to do next or why it might not be grouping? Thanks

Handloads
Brass - Hornady 2-3 times fired
Bullet - 50gr V-max
Powder - 36 gr Varget
Velocity - 3750 fps
Full body sized
seat .010 off lands (to ogive)

I have:
1. Tightened all the screws, action to stock, scope base, rings to base, rings to scope. - no change.
2. Changed the scope. - no change
3. Cleaned barrel with sweets to remove all copper fouling - slightly better results.

Next step - bedding the action. Any other ideas?

Could the barrel be shot out? I have about 2500 rounds through the barrel (factory).

What are the groups doing when they open up ? You don't mention barrel dimension, sporter, varmint etc. Them sporter barrels don't take heat well when volume shooting.
How hot is the barrel getting while this accuracy is deteriorating ? Many factors but definitely looking like the #1 factor is 2500 RDS on a 22-250. Hard to say tho.

 

[K22]

Mine died at about 2,300 rounds as a long range (300 yards and beyond) varmint rifle. It's a great round for long range varminting but hard on barrels especially if you shoot out of a hot barrel. I never hunted P-dogs but I understand that it's lots of shooting on a continuous basis. That will toast a 22 250 quickly.

You may want to consider a 223 Rem. with a quality dial up scope for longer ranges.

 

[Twicepop]

You tried the Sweets for copper fouling, did you also use a carbon remover? On a different note, I purchased an old Savage .223 heavy barrel several years back, It was kind of beat up, needing the stock refinished and a new recoil pad. After fitting the pad and re-finishing the stock I thought I give the barrel a thorough cleaning before putting it back together. I put an old brush with a patch on it, on the cleaning rod and affixed a flag of masking tape near the handle to verify the twist. I measured the distance between the back of the receiver and the handle, and then would do it again after the flag made one full revolution. When I pushed the rod through the bore, the flag didn't start to rotate until it had gone about 6-7" up the bore. I did this again with the same results, and knew I'd just bought a "turd". A phone call to SSS, and an order for a Douglas barrel turned it into a tack driver.

 

[JLT]

There's a limit as to how much time and/or work I would put into a .22-.250 barrel with 2,500 rounds out of it . . . and it ain't much!

I'd put that in the realm of normal life expectancy.

 

[redrockranger]

Could it be shot out = YES YES YES
Life is too short to expect it to be good again . It's down hill from here , probably a while ago . Don't waste time and money by not replacing the barrel .

Consider a 22 BR Norma. Very close to a 22-250 in performance . 53 Vmax is a excellent varmint bullet.0 freebore and no turn neck. You won't be disappointed.

My 40 x 22-250 was totally done by 3000 ads. pull the bolt and visually look at barrel. First 3" beyond chamber may be gone.

 

[ALK]

Hey fellas, I'm new to the group. Love all the information.

I shoot a Ruger M77 mark II chambered in 22-250 for prairie dog hunting. I have had great accuracy with it for the last 3 years. It/I have shot 1 inch groups at 100yds very consistently and that accuracy has carried out to 300 yds with 3 to 4 inch groups. This spring I shot 3 groups at 1/2" at 100 yards, it was awesome. A week later, I cannot get the rifle to shoot less that 4 inch groups at 100 yards. I cannot figure out what happened. I have had other people shoot the rifle as well and the experienced guys are getting 2 1/2 to 3 inch groups at best. Below is more detail about what i have done to rectify the issue with no success. Any ideas on what to do next or why it might not be grouping? Thanks

Handloads
Brass - Hornady 2-3 times fired
Bullet - 50gr V-max
Powder - 36 gr Varget
Velocity - 3750 fps
Full body sized
seat .010 off lands (to ogive)

I have:
1. Tightened all the screws, action to stock, scope base, rings to base, rings to scope. - no change.
2. Changed the scope. - no change
3. Cleaned barrel with sweets to remove all copper fouling - slightly better results.

Next step - bedding the action. Any other ideas?

Could the barrel be shot out? I have about 2500 rounds through the barrel (factory).

 

[ALK]

Hi Jack, Had a old Savage once that after installing a canjar trigger shot small groups. Was shooting PDs and my shooting partner said he watched my bullet miss a p-rat at 100. Of course I said Bull. Went back to his private range and set up target. He and another friend said (standing behind gun) they could see the bullet in flight. Looked at target- bullet tumbled all the way there. Perfect imprint of a bullet turned sideways. Still have that target. But it went from shooting great to not shooting in about two rounds, So it can happen Fast. No idea of round count- a lot.