Does annealing alleviate brass bounce back? Is it preferred to anneal before or after forming?
Brass Bounce Back
- Thread starter deadduck357
- Start date
Dusty Stevens
Shiner
Yes hardened brass tends to go where its set and not hold shape as consistent as annealed brass
Thanks again. Then I presume it's better to anneal after forming, right?
Dusty Stevens
Shiner
Anytime youre going to move things around you need to do it before and after. Moving will harden it again
Good to know, much appreciated.
Dusty Stevens
Shiner
So hows the experiment going? Have you got it all mastered and figured out?
jepp2
Gold $$ Contributor
I can interpret your question in many ways. To me "forming" is short for fire forming. And to me fire forming is when I take a 223 and turn it into a 223 AI. If the brass to be fire formed (using my definition) I want the shoulder and neck to malleable. So if it has several loading cycles on it, then I want to anneal it before I fire form.
After the case transition is complete, I like to anneal after a couple of sizing cycles.
In general, most believe it is better to anneal before you size the case. I didn't do it this way previously, but am converting over to this sequence. (I had a reason why I wanted to anneal after sizing but it was related the neck of my die picking up brass from the case neck, but I have changed my lube methodology and that isn't an issue any longer).
But during normal sizing I don't move the brass much. I don't move the shoulder much, if at all, and I hone my die necks so the diameter reduction and enlargement is minimal.
It has surpassed my expectations. Mastered - no - but progressing very well. I think y'all will really like it.
My apology for not being more precise. "Forming" in my op should have been forming die and then full-length sizing die.
Maybe I missed it somewhere on here but does anyone aneal, size brass (already fired brass not fire forming) in FL/Bushing die and then aneal again before dropping powder and a bullet in the case.
I aneal before I size and I doubt pushing the shoulder back 1thou and sizing the neck would really work the brass but you never know
I aneal before I size and I doubt pushing the shoulder back 1thou and sizing the neck would really work the brass but you never know
Dusty Stevens
Shiner
Youre correct. This topic is on that mysterious wildcat with forming dies and all that jazz hes never told us about so who knows how far that brass has moved.
Ledd Slinger
Silver $$ Contributor
Depends on the forming process. If its a radical change from the parent case then I anneal before AND after. If I'm just necking a case up or down, or FL sizing, I only anneal beforehand.
Last edited:
R.Morehouse
Gold $$ Contributor
When i size i leave the brass in the die for a full 10 seconds and this helps considerably with bounce back. I will test the sized brass in my chamber with the bolt stripped to be sure i have the "feel" i am looking for. If it's not there i will run the piece back into the die to let it "cook" a bit longer then try it again. If i don't get the desired result i toss the piece. I also anneal before sizing.
Regards
Rick
Regards
Rick
My preference is to de-prime, clean, anneal, size, trim if necessary, prime, drop powder, seat bullet then repeat.
if you anneal after re-sizing the brass will move, maybe on a couple of tenths, but it will move. Re-sizing after annealing guarantees my that every case will be as consistent as the next.
I hope this helps,
Lloyd
if you anneal after re-sizing the brass will move, maybe on a couple of tenths, but it will move. Re-sizing after annealing guarantees my that every case will be as consistent as the next.
I hope this helps,
Lloyd
In industry it is called spring back.
If you size the brass slowly let it dwell about 4 seconds at max stroke of the ram. Then retract about 1/2" and turn 120 degrees. Size again with another 4 seconds dwell. Repeat by retracting and turning again. Size again with another dwell. With enough sizing cycles and dwell eventually the brass gets pushed far enough it cannot spring back. If your brass acts strange give it a little anneal.
Check every case as it comes out of the die with a bump gage. By checking every case as you size it you will spot cases that vary due to variations in your technique. Speed of sizing strokes, number of sizing strokes, dwell time at top of strokes, amount of case sizing lube, hardness of the brass and other variables all can affect the shoulder position because they affect how far the brass pushes into the die.
You may or may not spot these variations with a stripped bolt. However you can easily see variations down to .001 with a bump gage.
If you size the brass slowly let it dwell about 4 seconds at max stroke of the ram. Then retract about 1/2" and turn 120 degrees. Size again with another 4 seconds dwell. Repeat by retracting and turning again. Size again with another dwell. With enough sizing cycles and dwell eventually the brass gets pushed far enough it cannot spring back. If your brass acts strange give it a little anneal.
Check every case as it comes out of the die with a bump gage. By checking every case as you size it you will spot cases that vary due to variations in your technique. Speed of sizing strokes, number of sizing strokes, dwell time at top of strokes, amount of case sizing lube, hardness of the brass and other variables all can affect the shoulder position because they affect how far the brass pushes into the die.
You may or may not spot these variations with a stripped bolt. However you can easily see variations down to .001 with a bump gage.
R.Morehouse
Gold $$ Contributor
Some great advise......Thanks......I have some comparitor dies and use them with the few i reload for in a dedicated Lee Classic Cast press. I enjoy going between the chamber "feel" and the dies to see how how it goes. After a bit you can feel with in a K where you are at. I should have included that in my previous post to avoid confusion. I will use your system of sizing next time out and see how it goes. The 2 Hollywood Senior presses i use are extremely consistent and will show any positive changes that happen. Thanks again for the advise.........Happy Shooting
Best Regards
Rick
My first big batch of cases that I formed was 100 cases formed with new brass. Since new brass was so hard to find and expensive at the time I wanted to get 100% yield. I used both the Hornady/Stoney Point gage and the stripped bolt. All 100 cases gave the right feel but not the first time. A few pieces came out too long and that was verified by the gage. So another pass through the die was required.
I think that must have been happening yesterday I was trying to bump the should back and ended up chasing it all over the place just moving the die an 1/8 of a turn would make my measurement go all over the place, I have all the parts on order to build a case annealer and for some reason thought that I was supposed to anneal after sizing but now I see that I should do it before thanks for the help
Ditto
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