BRA Does NOT Guarantee "Harry" a World Record

[ttfreestyle]

Update to my above post.

Make that 28 targets with the BRA, and a total of 4 groups in the threes!


View attachment 1050162


.05% dasher to 14.2% BRA, with he same idiot driver!

Teach me!!! I’ll buy the beverages, you will need a lot

 

[lawrence97]

I am very sorry to hear about your expensive investment that didn't work out.
I'd like to share with you what can be done on a budget. Many years ago I used to pay gunsmiths good money, and sometimes wait months, only to find out that the results were "less than satisfactory" to be VERY polite.
That's when I switched to Savage PT actions, which can be had new for $600, and bought a couple of barrel tools from EABCO. I buy reamers and chamber/headspace to my spec's by hand, no lathe. I buy quality barrels that others have given up on from this forum and clean them up.
Attached is a ladder test of my own 6BRO (Optimum) that is a BRDX with Dasher shoulder and taper. The total gun cost (not including scope) was $1,300 (Action $600, stock $500, bbl $200). The Krieger barrel had an unkown round count when I bought it and I've put another 1,000 through it.
Each group is three shots at 50yds. Best group 0.2moa avg (0.1x2). Velocity 3150fps.

How does it shoot at 100 yards and further out?
I always thought 100 yards was too close for testing but 50yds is one hole grouping distance for a quality 22lr and it seems it would be even harder to judge what a centerfire cartridge will do at distance.

 

[CaptainMal]

That Krieger is already trashed. I fire formed 200 cases for the new barrel with it and am still waiting for the new reamer. Ironically, used an old Bartlein Dasher 600 yard practice Thursday. With about 1,500 rds through it and shot a .8 and a 1.4". Had two more test loads for the old BRA barrel and shot them into 4 - 5" groups at best.

Used that same old Bartlein Dasher Saturday to win the Manatee 600 gong shoot. Some barrels work. Some belong in the ground as a tent peg.

 

[group therapy]

How does it shoot at 100 yards and further out?
I always thought 100 yards was too close for testing but 50yds is one hole grouping distance for a quality 22lr and it seems it would be even harder to judge what a centerfire cartridge will do at distance.

yeppp!!!! and three shot groups only tell a small tale

 

[Northridge]

That Krieger is already trashed. I fire formed 200 cases for the new barrel with it and am still waiting for the new reamer. Ironically, used an old Bartlein Dasher 600 yard practice Thursday. With about 1,500 rds through it and shot a .8 and a 1.4". Had two more test loads for the old BRA barrel and shot them into 4 - 5" groups at best.

Used that same old Bartlein Dasher Saturday to win the Manatee 600 gong shoot. Some barrels work. Some belong in the ground as a tent peg.

just a observation & I assume to know how you will answer but why fire form and waist one cycle on brass? What I mean is kill two birds with one stone, barrel needs at least 125 rounds on it to guarantee tune or data recorded will hold I'm not saying it will not shoot Pryor to 125 rounds on it but that it is going to change and it will take twice the effort to keep it in tune. . so there is know advantage in using a fire forming barrel we just increase time to the range and add cycle time to the brass reducing its life in regard to competitive accuracy.

Shawn Williams

 

[ASbobcat]

yeppp!!!! and three shot groups only tell a small tale

Take another look at the photo. Each step of the ladder is three groups of three shots each, total nine. Many years of experience has shown me that any more than that doesn't provide any more useful information.

 

[ASbobcat]

How does it shoot at 100 yards and further out?
I always thought 100 yards was too close for testing but 50yds is one hole grouping distance for a quality 22lr and it seems it would be even harder to judge what a centerfire cartridge will do at distance.

I shoot ladders at 50 yds to minimize any contribution from wind, and even then only with a light tailwinds. The idea that accuracy nodes change with distance has no basis in physics. Shooting at further distances only introduces an additional variable.
I see a lot of funny things now and then in this forum, but the single most memorable joke was the suggestion that one should ladder at the distance you intend to use it.1,000yds? Really? I laughed for days.

 

[dkhunt14]

I shoot ladders at 50 yds to minimize any contribution from wind, and even then only with a light tailwinds. The idea that accuracy nodes change with distance has no basis in physics. Shooting at further distances only introduces an additional variable.
I see a lot of funny things now and then in this forum, but the single most memorable joke was the suggestion that one should ladder at the distance you intend to use it.1,000yds? Really? I laughed for days.

I like guys that do that. They are usually pretty easy to beat at 1000. Matt

 

[KenOath]

just a observation & I assume to know how you will answer but why fire form and waist one cycle on brass? What I mean is kill two birds with one stone, barrel needs at least 125 rounds on it to guarantee tune or data recorded will hold I'm not saying it will not shoot Pryor to 125 rounds on it but that it is going to change and it will take twice the effort to keep it in tune. . so there is know advantage in using a fire forming barrel we just increase time to the range and add cycle time to the brass reducing its life in regard to competitive accuracy.

Shawn Williams

I agree with above.
I started load testing after 90-100 rnds on new Dasher Barrel, it fell out of tune fairly quickly from memory and shot badly at a club match or two, had to retune which took more rnds than would have if I’d ran another 50ish through Barrel before load testing.

 

[22DASHER]

I shoot ladders at 50 yds to minimize any contribution from wind, and even then only with a light tailwinds. The idea that accuracy nodes change with distance has no basis in physics. Shooting at further distances only introduces an additional variable.
I see a lot of funny things now and then in this forum, but the single most memorable joke was the suggestion that one should ladder at the distance you intend to use it.1,000yds? Really? I laughed for days.

RAOTFLMAO

 

[Alex Wheeler]

I shoot ladders at 50 yds to minimize any contribution from wind, and even then only with a light tailwinds. The idea that accuracy nodes change with distance has no basis in physics. Shooting at further distances only introduces an additional variable.
I see a lot of funny things now and then in this forum, but the single most memorable joke was the suggestion that one should ladder at the distance you intend to use it.1,000yds? Really? I laughed for days.

Well, a whole lot of world records have been set tuning that way and I still have not found a equivalent method of tuning. Positive compensation obeys all the laws of physics. I have to assume you have never done it.

 

[KenOath]

I do my final load testing at 400m which is the extent of the range I have available, for 500m BR shooting. I always pick an early morning with very little to no wind and the data I get back is very reliable.. Surely the guys doing ladders at 1000 MUST be doing them on near perfect to perfect no wind conditions days???
I can’t say I’ve ever done any testing at 50yards but I can’t see how it would hold at longer ranges? I do initial testing at 200m and sometimes that good load at 200 needs to be tweaked for 500m.

 

[Stan Taylor]

Well, a whole lot of world records have been set tuning that way and I still have not found a equivalent method of tuning. Positive compensation obeys all the laws of physics. I have to assume you have never done it.

Well, a whole lot of world records have been set tuning that way and I still have not found a equivalent method of tuning. Positive compensation obeys all the laws of physics. I have to assume you have never done it.

Alex you open the door on that one most of us don't have opportunities to tune at a 1000yds an especially at Montana 1000yds range.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

I do my final load testing at 400m which is the extent of the range I have available, for 500m BR shooting. I always pick an early morning with very little to no wind and the data I get back is very reliable.. Surely the guys doing ladders at 1000 MUST be doing them on near perfect to perfect no wind conditions days???
I can’t say I’ve ever done any testing at 50yards but I can’t see how it would hold at longer ranges? I do initial testing at 200m and sometimes that good load at 200 needs to be tweaked for 500m.

You have to use common sense. If you expect solid data from testing at 1k, you have to do it in conditions that will give you good data. Even with some conditions you will still always find the best spot in the ladder even if the whole thing is a little wide. It is not the easiest way to tune, I keep trying other methods because I live in a windy place. But I keep going back to the 1k ladder because nothing gives me the same results. Maybe I just dont know what to look for at shorter range.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Alex you open the door on that one most of us don't have opportunities to tune at a 1000yds an especially at Montana 1000yds range.

I know Stan. My local range is as windy as they come. I still do it, not because I want to though. Whitehorse and Harry Jones dont let you tune there?

 

[Stan Taylor]

I know Stan. My local range is as windy as they come. I still do it, not because I want to though. Whitehorse and Harry Jones dont let you tune there?

Hell Whitehorse is an excellent place to tune probably no world records though.LOL

 

[ridgeway]

I know Stan. My local range is as windy as they come. I still do it, not because I want to though. Whitehorse and Harry Jones dont let you tune there?

Good luck at Whitehorse, lol

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Heres my home range where I tune. This is a typical day. There are rare days it is decent and you have to capitalize on them. 1k tuning is not an easy way to go. I have shot small here. Not often. Montana is a windy sob. Glenn Kulzer who is leading our LG agg also tunes here. Its not ideal but we manage. I have though of holding a match here. But I dont know who would want to shoot here.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=480736695658599

 

[KenOath]

You have to use common sense. If you expect solid data from testing at 1k, you have to do it in conditions that will give you good data. Even with some conditions you will still always find the best spot in the ladder even if the whole thing is a little wide. It is not the easiest way to tune, I keep trying other methods because I live in a windy place. But I keep going back to the 1k ladder because nothing gives me the same results. Maybe I just dont know what to look for at shorter range.

I agree with testing at the longer distances, if I could test at 500m which is what I mainly shoot comps in for BR I would, but testing at 400m is better than the 200m that I initially do to find something close but at 400m it usually always needs tweaking and 99% of the time holds for the 500m.
I believe the guys that do ladders at 1000 are getting good info, Asbobcat may have to look at picking the best conditions possible to test at the longer ranges then he may find some firm data at the longs rather than at just 50yards.. but then again it may be working for him.

 

[Stan Taylor]

We'll it's a no brainer if could tune at 50yd I would be working on it tomorrow.