Need Help reloading? I think I have the necessary equipment.

[Colt Kodiak]

your sizing die is a redding S die right? or do you just have a standard sizing die?

Yes, it is the type S neck die for a bushing. My Redding FL die does not take a bushing.

 

[jepp2]

I am thinking that I could fire 6-9 times and not have to bump back the shoulder until maybe then the brass won't chamber.

The numbers of firings will depend on several things. But don't take it to the point of where the brass "won't chamber", just take it to the point where you can feel the resistance of the brass when you close the bolt.

If you are neck sizing with the chamber neck size you mentioned, annealing every firing is overkill. But do as you like.

 

[Colt Kodiak]

The numbers of firings will depend on several things. But don't take it to the point of where the brass "won't chamber", just take it to the point where you can feel the resistance of the brass when you close the bolt.

If you are neck sizing with the chamber neck size you mentioned, annealing every firing is overkill. But do as you like.

Hey, How are you?
I think I'll anneal when its time to bump back the shoulders every 6-8 reloads, I'm guessing.

 

[jepp2]

Hey, How are you?
I think I'll anneal when its time to bump back the shoulders every 6-8 reloads, I'm guessing.

I'm great, thanks for asking. That sounds like it should work fine. If your chamber case neck was much larger, like a typical factory case neck, your FL sizing die was taking the neck down to ~0.005" under the expanded neck diameter, then you are putting much more work into the brass in the case neck.

There was a thread recently where Riflewoman gave the amount of work to get brass to the point it should be annealed, and how many firing cycles that was. Pretty interesting example using the metallurgical properties of the brass.

 

[Colt Kodiak]

I'm great, thanks for asking. That sounds like it should work fine. If your chamber case neck was much larger, like a typical factory case neck, your FL sizing die was taking the neck down to ~0.005" under the expanded neck diameter, then you are putting much more work into the brass in the case neck.

There was a thread recently where Riflewoman gave the amount of work to get brass to the point it should be annealed, and how many firing cycles that was. Pretty interesting example using the metallurgical properties of the brass.

I would like to read that article. I have no idea when to anneal. I do know some do it every reloading and some never. That does not give me the answer. I do have a pretty nice annealer so the process would not be too extreme. I've got some .223 brass and will give it a try. I'm thinking on a 20VT brass, probably 2-3 seconds with both torches going.

 

[jepp2]

I would like to read that article.

Took a while to find it. Post 10 is what I was referencing.
http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/whats-a-sensible-frequency-of-annealing-308-cases.3947296/

 

[hoz53]

Yes, it is the type S neck die for a bushing. My Redding FL die does not take a bushing.

isnt that part of the confusion/ get a Full length S die. then the die will size the body and the bushing will size the neck.

 

[Colt Kodiak]

isnt that part of the confusion/ get a Full length S die. then the die will size the body and the bushing will size the neck.

That could be the case, but I'm thinking that if the full length body die I have (no bushing) is set so that it only bumps down the neck .002" then the neck bushing would not travel the full length of the neck. I'm probably wrong here and someone can set me straight. I think I'll use what I have setting the full length die in the screws a bit to bump back the neck .002" and then run them through again using the neck sizer die. What's wrong with that? Double the trouble but saving a die. ha

 

[hoz53]

That could be the case, but I'm thinking that if the full length body die I have (no bushing) is set so that it only bumps down the neck .002" then the neck bushing would not travel the full length of the neck. I'm probably wrong here and someone can set me straight. I think I'll use what I have setting the full length die in the screws a bit to bump back the neck .002" and then run them through again using the neck sizer die. What's wrong with that? Double the trouble but saving a die. ha

the neck doesnt have to be sized 100%. if you use your standard full length die to bump shoulder back 002 the length u size the neck will be fine. the issue is you have no control of neck dia and your fl die will prob size neck dia down to far and overwork your brass leading to shortened brass life and probably more crooked necks

 

[gambleone]

Hey, How are you?
I think I'll anneal when its time to bump back the shoulders every 6-8 reloads, I'm guessing.

Your case will tell you when it needs bumped. How often will depend on how hot your loads are.

 

[Colt Kodiak]

the neck doesnt have to be sized 100%. if you use your standard full length die to bump shoulder back 002 the length u size the neck will be fine. the issue is you have no control of neck dia and your fl die will prob size neck dia down to far and overwork your brass leading to shortened brass life and probably more crooked necks

My full length body die for the 20VT sizes the necks of .221 Fireball brass to .232" and my bushing neck die sizes them to .230". But, sizing with the FL die brass fits into my chamber which is .235" neck diameter. So I guess I could just use that die. My gunsmith told me to size them to .230, but if it fits in, guess it's okay.

 

[hoz53]

My full length body die for the 20VT sizes the necks of .221 Fireball brass to .232" and my bushing neck die sizes them to .230". But, sizing with the FL die brass fits into my chamber which is .235" neck diameter. So I guess I could just use that die. My gunsmith told me to size them to .230, but if it fits in, guess it's okay.

id follow your GS advice and size the necks to .230 with the S die neck sizer. a body die doesnt size the neck. the idea is to size your brass with the neck die until they expand enough they wont fit in the chamber then size them down with the body die, then keep doing that. the times you use the body die you have to use the neck die and size the neck also. i wouldnt do it this way id get a FL bushing die. i wouldnt use the standard FL die at all id use the neck die and body die or id get the FL s die.

 

[Colt Kodiak]

id follow your GS advice and size the necks to .230 with the S die neck sizer. a body die doesnt size the neck. the idea is to size your brass with the neck die until they expand enough they wont fit in the chamber then size them down with the body die, then keep doing that. the times you use the body die you have to use the neck die and size the neck also. i wouldnt do it this way id get a FL bushing die. i wouldnt use the standard FL die at all id use the neck die and body die or id get the FL s die.

That is great advice and I will order a redding FL bushing die.

 

[hoz53]

That is great advice and I will order a redding FL bushing die.

i think that will work out best for you. dont know what one will cost in that caliber.

 

[Colt Kodiak]

Took a while to find it. Post 10 is what I was referencing.
http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/whats-a-sensible-frequency-of-annealing-308-cases.3947296/

That was worth the read. Thanks. I wonder when you anneal? I think annealing is one of the sorted individual factors from what I've read on here. Surely there is a bronze hardness tester that we all need to test our brass.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Competitors will have a sizing die made from the same reamer used to chamber their barrel.

you cant make a sizing die from the same reamer used to chamber a barrel you get what's called a "die reamer" which has smaller dimensions in key areas picked by the gunsmith on where and how far to size to control case growth, etc. theres a lot of experience involved in that so the best thing to do if you dont have access to extra reamers, heat treat ovens etc is to send cases to whidden and let them figure it out for you. get a FL bushing die and your cases will be sized the same at 25 firings as they are at the 2nd. consistency and ease of shooting (simplicity) is the key- thats why most experienced reloaders and competition shooters use a FL bushing die. brass is the same every time and you can adjust neck tension as you see fit.

 

[jepp2]

I wonder when you anneal?

Varies somewhat. My goal with annealing is not for extremely consistent neck tension (I don't shoot long range) so it mostly is to avoid losing cases due to neck cracks.

When I reform brass like with my 20 Bobcat, I will anneal after the 3'rd firing. Similarly when I neck down on 20P, about the 3'rd firing. Most of my brass gets annealed every 5'th firing. But....

I don't move my shoulders much when sizing if at all. My goal is to have the sized case 0.002" shorter than bolt contact. And it may take 4-5 firings to fully form the brass to my chamber so that I can feel the bolt close on it. So a lot of time my sized case dimensions are the same as the fired case dimensions (case head to datum).

I don't work my neck that much each firing. Rather than use bushings, I hone my FL die necks to the diameter I want.

For cartridges that the case necks get worked more due to more expansion of the neck during firing, I will anneal more often. And for some cartridges I use a body die and the Lee collet die to size the neck. My 25-06 is an example of this, I use it for deer and antelope. Quite a bit of expansion of the neck due to the factory chamber and the Lee collet die works best with softer case necks.

 

[INTJ]

I am confused as to the confusion and difficulty some have with shoulder bumping. I had to load up 300 rounds for the NBRSA 600/1000 yd Nationals last month. I annealed every case before sizing, and I now anneal after every firing, and every case was shoulder bumped about .002” with a Harrel FL bushing die. I have also used Redding FL bushing dies to bump for competition rifles.

Whenever I load for a hunting rifle I also bump the shoulder, usually with a non-bushing FL die as I don’t worry about precise neck tension in a hunting rig. In fact I crimp all my hunting rifle ammo and the rifles shoot very accurately.

Bumping each time is as easy as neck only sizing, is what those of us serious about the Nth degree of accuracy do, and is more consistent in that you don’t need to throw in a shoulder bump when your brass gets hard to chamber.