Gentlemen, I present... the ".220 REDLINE"
- Thread starter fredo
- Start date
Raythemanroe
Bullet Whisperer
"Ackley was not just a wildcatter, he was a researcher as well, often testing firearms to destruction in the search for information. He also produced a number of experimental cartridges, not intended to be practical, but rather to test the limits of firearms. One of these experimental cartridges was the .22 Eargesplitten Loudenboomer. This humorously named cartridge was developed by Ackley for Bob Hutton of Guns & Ammo magazine, and was intended solely to exceed 5,000 ft/s (1,500 m/s) muzzle velocity. Ackley's loads only managed 4,600 ft/s (1,400 m/s)(Mach 4.2), firing a 50-grain (3.2 g) bullet. Based on a .378 Weatherby Magnum case, the case is impractically over-capacity for the bore diameter, and so the cartridge remains a curiosity. The advent of new slower-burning smokeless powders may have changed the equation.
Another humorous round, the .17 Flintstone Super Eyebunger, based on the .22-250 necked down to .17 caliber, has been used by Australian gunsmith Bill Hambly-Clark, Jr. to achieve velocities of 4,798 ft/s (1,462 m/s) out of a 52-inch (1,300 mm) barreled gun."
Ray
Another humorous round, the .17 Flintstone Super Eyebunger, based on the .22-250 necked down to .17 caliber, has been used by Australian gunsmith Bill Hambly-Clark, Jr. to achieve velocities of 4,798 ft/s (1,462 m/s) out of a 52-inch (1,300 mm) barreled gun."
Ray
Raythemanroe
Bullet Whisperer
No Ill intent, just thought this was interesting.. I guess I can understand testing the limits
Ray
Ray
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fredo--love this build. Just for numbers ,20 yrs ago I built a standard 22-250 AI with the sole purpose of shooting a p-d at 1000 yds. I know that to-day that is not all that of a big deal. I don't know if using a broughton 27in 5r 9 twist with the bore coated with" bore coat" is why it works, but with about 43grs of r17 I can push a 75 a-max or 75 vld Berger right at 3725 fps. I was told on here that using q-load I should be in the 70,000 psi range. I don't have any smile's on my brass and no hard bolt lift. I took one new WW brass and keep loading it until I had poor primer pockets. That took 15 firings. The rifle was a 1/4 inch gun when new, it now has just over 1000 rds down it and is starting to open up. I have had no trouble with stabilization or bullet separation. My original thought when I built it with the 27 in barrel with 5in tenon was that when the throat gave up I would cut 3in off the tenon, have a 24in barrel and chamber it for a standard 22-250. Just getting to this cross road now. But I think with the low prices of x-caliber barrels I would just delegate this old barrel to another fat tomato stake and start over. Just my experience.
That....
Is getting so dangerously close to unbelievable.....
I’m not calling you a liar at all....
I’m saying you own a unicorn
Ya that's some real velocity for sure. I just finished a 22-250AI with a 30" barrel and getting in the mid 3500 range with the 80s and thought that was impressive. I'm certain it will be lower once accuracy becomes my goal. Break in period right now as well as fireforming brass so I'll know more later on.
Quick follow up...
Shot a few rounds and again encountered pressure earlier than expected, based on initial tests.
Being as it's breaking 80+ now, will prolly drop down a grain or two and tighten up charge steps to 0.2gr to find a happy place. Maybe 1st woodchuck dispatch over the weekend, after whackin a gobbler...
Shot a few rounds and again encountered pressure earlier than expected, based on initial tests.
Being as it's breaking 80+ now, will prolly drop down a grain or two and tighten up charge steps to 0.2gr to find a happy place. Maybe 1st woodchuck dispatch over the weekend, after whackin a gobbler...
357, I can get over 67grains of '33 without a 'much 'crunch' upon seating!
Whelp...based on what Mr.Magnetospeed told me today, RL-33 is NOT temperature stable!
An otherwise 'safe' (by my observing) load @ 45 degrees, resulted in hard bolt lift and extractor stamp @ 86 degrees.
And, get this...a 75 gr JLK clocked 4088 fps
Step below that was 4035 fps
So, gonna back down a bit further until the bolt will lift easy on a hot day. Working load will likely not break 4,000fps, but the .220 REDLINE was able to clear that INSANE velocity without even popping a primer!!!
Unfrickenbelievable...
Whelp...based on what Mr.Magnetospeed told me today, RL-33 is NOT temperature stable!
An otherwise 'safe' (by my observing) load @ 45 degrees, resulted in hard bolt lift and extractor stamp @ 86 degrees.
And, get this...a 75 gr JLK clocked 4088 fps
Step below that was 4035 fps
So, gonna back down a bit further until the bolt will lift easy on a hot day. Working load will likely not break 4,000fps, but the .220 REDLINE was able to clear that INSANE velocity without even popping a primer!!!
Unfrickenbelievable...
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20-practical
Gold $$ Contributor
Have you tried setting changing the temperature in QL?
fredo -
Howdy, again ! Thanx for the prompt response.
I had been wondering whether your load work ups might benefit from use of a " temperature insensitive "
powder ?
At that end of the burn rate spectrum, the two "Enduron" powders mentioned are some that are closest in
" burn rate " to RL-33.
Perhaps a different powder ?
You might not only be able to see less change in bullet impact points w/ temp change, but might also find a combo that gives great load density, safe pressure, useful vel; and the desired level of accuracy ?
Just wondering.....
Great work Fredo, none-the-less !
With regards,
357Mag
Howdy, again ! Thanx for the prompt response.
I had been wondering whether your load work ups might benefit from use of a " temperature insensitive "
powder ?
At that end of the burn rate spectrum, the two "Enduron" powders mentioned are some that are closest in
" burn rate " to RL-33.
Perhaps a different powder ?
You might not only be able to see less change in bullet impact points w/ temp change, but might also find a combo that gives great load density, safe pressure, useful vel; and the desired level of accuracy ?
Just wondering.....
Great work Fredo, none-the-less !
With regards,
357Mag
20, funny you should ask!
Happens that I was just messing with QL to get these latest #s to match.
1. I adjusted powder temp
2. Weighing factor already adjusted DOWN to .33 (recommended for "overbore" cases)
3. Case volume trued, per avg. of five, 1x fired cases
4. Initial start pressure set to 7200 psi (for bullet 'jammed')
Given those adjustments, projected velocity was still LOW.
So...I then adjusted 'Ba' factor UP to where projected velocity match from Magnetospeed.
REMEMBER, this is a 75 GRAIN, .224 caliber BULLET
Not any kind of QL guru, just stating my methodology for working with an otherwise 'unknown' cartridge!
With QL now 'tuned' the best I can for the REDLINE, it shows that load above was running in the vicinity of 69K psi. TOO HOT!!!
Primers had a slight cratering, but the bolt lift and ejector mark are dead giveaways:
Now that I've got a decent 'tune' on QL, I should be able to dial down to a safer pressure. Furthermore, can reference the 'Pmax / Z1' relationship for a given charge. Also, can look at OBT #s for the 27" barrel to see if/what charge looks best on that.
Not relying on any ONE source, just nice to have as much data to compare against! In the end, the target is gonna tell me what's best...
Sorry to bore yall with QL stuff! Just tryin' to be SAFE & methodical about load development! Kinda sucks to drive an hour to the range to shoot 3 rounds, but I'd rather do that than blow my friggin' face off!!!
Happens that I was just messing with QL to get these latest #s to match.
1. I adjusted powder temp
2. Weighing factor already adjusted DOWN to .33 (recommended for "overbore" cases)
3. Case volume trued, per avg. of five, 1x fired cases
4. Initial start pressure set to 7200 psi (for bullet 'jammed')
Given those adjustments, projected velocity was still LOW.
So...I then adjusted 'Ba' factor UP to where projected velocity match from Magnetospeed.
REMEMBER, this is a 75 GRAIN, .224 caliber BULLET
Not any kind of QL guru, just stating my methodology for working with an otherwise 'unknown' cartridge!
With QL now 'tuned' the best I can for the REDLINE, it shows that load above was running in the vicinity of 69K psi. TOO HOT!!!
Primers had a slight cratering, but the bolt lift and ejector mark are dead giveaways:
Now that I've got a decent 'tune' on QL, I should be able to dial down to a safer pressure. Furthermore, can reference the 'Pmax / Z1' relationship for a given charge. Also, can look at OBT #s for the 27" barrel to see if/what charge looks best on that.
Not relying on any ONE source, just nice to have as much data to compare against! In the end, the target is gonna tell me what's best...
Sorry to bore yall with QL stuff! Just tryin' to be SAFE & methodical about load development! Kinda sucks to drive an hour to the range to shoot 3 rounds, but I'd rather do that than blow my friggin' face off!!!
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4088 & 4035 are pretty much all out hot rod speeds for the 75 grainer in a .224. Not sure but when guys talk about the 22 Cheetah moving 50-55s at well over 4000 fps being speed demons, I'm thinking the 75s at over 4000 also qualifies it as one as well.
20-practical
Gold $$ Contributor
20, funny you should ask!
Happens that I was just messing with QL to get these latest #s to match.
1. I adjusted powder temp
2. Weighing factor already adjusted DOWN to .33 (recommended for "overbore" cases)
3. Case volume trued, per avg. of five, 1x fired cases
4. Initial start pressure set to 7200 psi (for bullet 'jammed')
Given those adjustments, projected velocity was still LOW.
So...I then adjusted 'Ba' factor UP to where projected velocity match from Magnetospeed.
REMEMBER, this is a 75 GRAIN, .224 caliber BULLET
Not any kind of QL guru, just stating my methodology for working with an otherwise 'unknown' cartridge!
With QL now 'tuned' the best I can for the REDLINE, it shows that load above was running in the vicinity of 69K psi. TOO HOT!!!
Primers had a slight cratering, but the bolt lift and ejector mark are dead giveaways:
Now that I've got a decent 'tune' on QL, I should be able to dial down to a safer pressure. Furthermore, can reference the 'Pmax / Z1' relationship for a given charge. Also, can look at OBT #s for the 27" barrel to see if/what charge looks best on that.
Not relying on any ONE source, just nice to have as much data to compare against! In the end, the target is gonna tell me what's best...
Sorry to bore yall with QL stuff! Just tryin' to be SAFE & methodical about load development! Kinda sucks to drive an hour to the range to shoot 3 rounds, but I'd rather do that than blow my friggin' face off!!!
Sounds to me like your on the right track. I'm not a QL expert either. But I learn so much more by reading this stuff. good luck. keep the reports coming.
Lone Hunter
Silver $$ Contributor
Pictures are worth a thousand words. Let’s see what was left..Spoiler Alert!!!
Fredo has initiated the Redline! It was worth the wait.
A secret anonymous source has digital proof of devastating terminal results.
ohhh my! Snert is happy happy happy.
snert
Silver $$ Contributor
Fredo promised a link forthcoming, but I know he is in the no-internet zone for a bit...chasing gobblers in morning, killing chucks in afternoon.
The one photo i saw was memorable!
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