LA50SHOOTER
Sworn To Protect The Constitution.
F Guffey,
- Do you drink a lot of coffee sir ?
- Do you drink a lot of coffee sir ?
Are these cases suitable for FL die sizing?
- Thread starter dgeesaman
- Start date
Dusty Stevens
Shiner
Al gore invented the shoulder bump.
I wonder if that doctor was distantly related to Forrest Gump.
pirate ammo
Guaranteed to take the wind out of their sails
I tried to warn you this would happen,,took it hook line and sinker, time to reel him in.
dmoran
Donovan Moran
pirate ammo
Guaranteed to take the wind out of their sails
man don't you know according to kalifornia,coffee causes cancer,,unless its community
pirate ammo
Guaranteed to take the wind out of their sails
2000 posts,,by the time I get there I'll be dead and Mr. guffy will still be instructing us,@fguffey
If you have not convinced one person in over 2000 posts....I think it may be time to give up.
dmoran
Donovan Moran
This isn't his busiest forum. Has 1000's on others, with +6000 on at least one other.
And remember: He is the only one !.!.!
pirate ammo
Guaranteed to take the wind out of their sails
O.K. the only thing is to say "LADIES AND GENTLEMEN,,BOYS AND GIRLS WELCOME TO THE GREATEST SHOW ON EARTH" or something like that. +6000,damn
Dusty Stevens
Shiner
I guess he actually answers questions on those other forums
Medic505
Gold $$ Contributor
OK Ill bite, what's a Piggy Back 11?
dmoran
Donovan Moran
A progressive press attachment (from many moons ago).
The piggyback doubled your bump, remove it for regular bump.
Last edited:
snert
Silver $$ Contributor
This post was officially DERAILED.
So, in an effort to help the OP, I am going to take a crack at it.
First some basic info:
The standard dies made by die makers are INTENDED to (when set to cam over) reduce the case no matter how thin or thick that brass wall may be (you should be thinking of the concept of tolerance stacking right now) to fit into the SMALLEST chamber in ALL measurements.
So, when we add up all the measurements, all the variables, all the differences in brass lots, and toss in a dose of shellholder, brass aging and springiness, it is no wonder that you may see that your one, two, three, four times fired brass has yet to reach its full "length" from base to shoulder, given that you are cold swaging it every time after firing with an adjustable (read changeable) die.
FWIW, and scary as it sounds, Guffster made some sense in his first two posts (only).
A small case will expand to fit the larger areas of a given chamber. If the biggest area is near the base, you can bet the shoulder is not going to move forward on that first firing and may actually be drawn back! Then you size it, and lo and behold, it moves the shoulder forward! Because you squeezed the bottom, it moved like a weener balloon that is being squeezed at the bottom...it gets longer. Different die, different sizing (within tolerances) and different result.
So I suggest you shoot that brass four times, neck size it each time, let it "grow" till bolt closing is tough, then adjust your FL die in increments (you can use Redding COMP shellholders to do this with known measured increments or you can guess by using the twisty turny approach to the die) and then test it in your chamber each time till you get easy bolt drop. Stop and lock your die.
In this fashion you are taking a generic die and adjusting it to just size that case enough to fit, but no more.
Or, fire that brass three times and send it in for a custom die from Whidden.
I think, (mind reading now) that is what Guff was talking about when he said he has backed his dies out way from the shellholder to allow the case to "grow" to fit a longish chamber. There are newer ways to do it, but a feeler gage is one way to adjust.
As far as his "no headspace" theory, well that is semantics and bottom line is it is BS.
So, in an effort to help the OP, I am going to take a crack at it.
First some basic info:
- The PPC was a wildcat, and PPC reamers were all over the planet when it came to specs. So, if you had a PPC from a barrel maker, best bet is to have a die made with the reamer and go with it.
- The PPC USA that SAKO chambered became a CIP/SAAMI adopted cartridge, with standards.
- Those standards include a MIN and a MAX for each measurement of the case/chamber.
- PPC USA screw in dies are just like every other screw in die...tolerances differ by maker and by tooling, but should be SMALLER than all minimum measurements.
The standard dies made by die makers are INTENDED to (when set to cam over) reduce the case no matter how thin or thick that brass wall may be (you should be thinking of the concept of tolerance stacking right now) to fit into the SMALLEST chamber in ALL measurements.
So, when we add up all the measurements, all the variables, all the differences in brass lots, and toss in a dose of shellholder, brass aging and springiness, it is no wonder that you may see that your one, two, three, four times fired brass has yet to reach its full "length" from base to shoulder, given that you are cold swaging it every time after firing with an adjustable (read changeable) die.
FWIW, and scary as it sounds, Guffster made some sense in his first two posts (only).
A small case will expand to fit the larger areas of a given chamber. If the biggest area is near the base, you can bet the shoulder is not going to move forward on that first firing and may actually be drawn back! Then you size it, and lo and behold, it moves the shoulder forward! Because you squeezed the bottom, it moved like a weener balloon that is being squeezed at the bottom...it gets longer. Different die, different sizing (within tolerances) and different result.
So I suggest you shoot that brass four times, neck size it each time, let it "grow" till bolt closing is tough, then adjust your FL die in increments (you can use Redding COMP shellholders to do this with known measured increments or you can guess by using the twisty turny approach to the die) and then test it in your chamber each time till you get easy bolt drop. Stop and lock your die.
In this fashion you are taking a generic die and adjusting it to just size that case enough to fit, but no more.
Or, fire that brass three times and send it in for a custom die from Whidden.
I think, (mind reading now) that is what Guff was talking about when he said he has backed his dies out way from the shellholder to allow the case to "grow" to fit a longish chamber. There are newer ways to do it, but a feeler gage is one way to adjust.
As far as his "no headspace" theory, well that is semantics and bottom line is it is BS.
Why 4 times?
How much short of chamber headspace does a new case with a max load fired once have its headspace set?
Dusty Stevens
Shiner
dmoran
Donovan Moran
He's posted that same gas here also... and likely on other forums as well.
Copy & Paste are his biggest constituents, and help his world go around... lol
snert
Silver $$ Contributor
IF the case is nominal length, and the chamber long, then 4 times and neck sizing should get that case (minus springback) dang close to "chamber size". I regularly see cases actually shorten at first fire. I had a Hart barreled 222 and some Winchester circa 2006 brass. I did not check it's spec's, just prepped it and loaded. I was stunned to find it shortened a LOT first fire. Turned out the brass was at or below minimum specs...back when all metal was going to china if you recall. That stuff sucked.
I picked 4 as a good guess. Might need more. Might need less. Depends on where the chamber is in relation to the brass.
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