Neck sizing only......after annealing

[done111]

Does anyone out there only neck size with a lee collet die following annealing of the brass? My concern doing this is that maybe the brass distorts some with the annealing process and may require more than just neck sizing following annealing. I like neck sizing only, when I can. I have Redding body dies which I can minimize working brass (0.002 shoulder bump), but still need to trim more than I like when the body dies are used. I'm thinking of annealing after every firing, but if it requires me to work the shoulder and body every time instead of just the neck, I may not go that route. If it makes any difference, I have been salt bath annealing.

Don

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Why not just FL size every time and be done with it? Yes you need to fully size your brass after annealing theres no telling where its gonna end up.

 

[Texas10]

For my 223 load work, I neck size only with Lee collet die. Brass does not grow, run out is .0015 or less, and I seldom need to anneal. Group size seems to indicate I'm doing it right.

 

[jepp2]

Does anyone out there only neck size with a lee collet die following annealing of the brass?

I used to anneal as my last step in my case prep process. I didn't see anything that would lead me to believe that you wouldn't be fine annealing then neck sizing with the LCD.

 

[Barlow]

Just for s&g's follow the instructions in the video, full length size and compare groups. Barlow

 

[Toolbreaker]

Does anyone out there only neck size with a lee collet die following annealing of the brass? My concern doing this is that maybe the brass distorts some with the annealing process and may require more than just neck sizing following annealing. I like neck sizing only, when I can. I have Redding body dies which I can minimize working brass (0.002 shoulder bump), but still need to trim more than I like when the body dies are used. I'm thinking of annealing after every firing, but if it requires me to work the shoulder and body every time instead of just the neck, I may not go that route. If it makes any difference, I have been salt bath annealing.

Don

I used to do what you're asking about: anneal, then collet die only on each firing. What I found was that the base-to-datum length would change inconsistently (and sometimes drastically) from one piece of brass to the next. I'd suggest doing what Barlow said: run the two methods side-by-side and let your rifle tell you which it prefers.

 

[Delfuego]

I love that video and posted it before. Way easier than trying to explain.

 

[zx10mike]

well i'll go out on a limb and say i don't re size after annealing . i have measured the necks and see no difference after doing it so stopped.or am i about to be schooled ?

 

[Dusty Stevens]

well i'll go out on a limb and say i don't re size after annealing . i have measured the necks and see no difference after doing it so stopped.or am i about to be schooled ?

You gotta do whatever works for you. At least you checked

 

[people]

Why not just FL size every time and be done with it? Yes you need to fully size your brass after annealing theres no telling where its gonna end up.

Why? because his rant is for a very narrow scope of shooting. While if you are going to be shooting certain competitions with very high end rifles it can be considered gold. For others it is pure shit. A person needs to find out what works for their situation and rifle.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Why? because his rant is for a very narrow scope of shooting. While if you are going to be shooting certain competitions with very high end rifles it can be considered gold. For others it is pure shit. A person needs to find out what works for their situation and rifle.

No it doesnt matter if youre loading a 30-30 to get a deer, a 222 for a coyote or a 338/378 weatherby for whatever youre gonna use it on theres no brass out there that works better neck sized. No matter what youre doing youll benefit from fl sizing. Neck sizing went out in the 50’s once they realized the benefits of putting their brass back the same shape every shot. Theres not a situation that will ever come up on any cartridge that neck sizing is the best choice.

 

[people]

No it doesnt matter if youre loading a 30-30 to get a deer, a 222 for a coyote or a 338/378 weatherby for whatever youre gonna use it on theres no brass out there that works better neck sized. No matter what youre doing youll benefit from fl sizing. Neck sizing went out in the 50’s once they realized the benefits of putting their brass back the same shape every shot. Theres not a situation that will ever come up on any cartridge that neck sizing is the best choice.

See that narrow minded and short sightedness is rearing its ugly head with you also. Yes under ideal conditions it is solid advice. I have seen too many guys watch this stupid video and then create "head space" issues in their rifle. They all thought lets try this. So they go new brass and shot them. Then used that brass to reset their dies. Lonng story short the brass never filled the chamber on the first firing. So they all were over working their brass and giving them the appearance that their rifle is now out of spec. What is sad is what they were doing was working and their brass was lasting a long time.

Lets use one of my match rifles as a case study. As it explains the above well. I have a 30-06 when I fire factory ammo the shoulder moves forward but not anywhere near the shoulder in the chamber. At this point I have a choice. Anneal them to dead soft "over soften" and then fire form then or neck size for loading 2 and 3. After this point just bumping the shoulder works. So if I used the fired factory ammo to set my dies I would be over working my brass and it would look like I had head space issues. For the record it is just under max.

If he made that video just for us on accurate shooter then solid advice, but it is for everyone to see. If everyone was as savvy as us with reloading they could pick out what is good advice and what is poor to bad advice and take away the good. The reality is his rant (yes it is a rant) is giving out bad advice for the novice reloader.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Its not narrow mindedness at all. I DO get to see the effects of novice loaders listening to the neck size guys then they ruin a hunt breaking a bolt handle off or rounds so tight they have to beat the bolt closed. We can agree to disagree but in my experience dealing with reloaders on every skill level for 20+yrs and on my own for 30+ i have yet to find a use for neck sizing- especially with new inexperienced reloaders.

 

[Fotheringill]

I have found that I need to FL size only after 5-6 firings due to harder than normal bolt closure. I prefer to neck size only with the Lee Collet die and get similar runout results as stated above, about 1.5/1000. I neck with the Lee or full size and bump .002 with the Redding FL body die.

 

[spife7980]

See that narrow minded and short sightedness is rearing its ugly head with you also. Yes under ideal conditions it is solid advice. I have seen too many guys watch this stupid video and then create "head space" issues in their rifle. They all thought lets try this. So they go new brass and shot them. Then used that brass to reset their dies. Lonng story short the brass never filled the chamber on the first firing. So they all were over working their brass and giving them the appearance that their rifle is now out of spec. What is sad is what they were doing was working and their brass was lasting a long time.

So your problem with full length sizing is that people who dont know how to do it... dont know how to do it?

 

[people]

So your problem with full length sizing is that people who dont know how to do it... dont know how to do it?

Please re read what I typed.

 

[people]

Its not narrow mindedness at all. I DO get to see the effects of novice loaders listening to the neck size guys then they ruin a hunt breaking a bolt handle off or rounds so tight they have to beat the bolt closed. We can agree to disagree but in my experience dealing with reloaders on every skill level for 20+yrs and on my own for 30+ i have yet to find a use for neck sizing- especially with new inexperienced reloaders.

I guess your experience is much different than mine. I would also state my experience with lower quality firearms far eclipses yours.

 

[mikecr]

My concern doing this is that maybe the brass distorts some with the annealing process and may require more than just neck sizing following annealing.

Are you just annealing necks or farther down the case?
The only reason to anneal beyond a neck is for forming a new/different cartridge.

There is no problem with neck sizing and separate body sizing as your situation dictates. Nearly all 'FL bushing' dies are doing exactly this (not actual FL sizing).

 

[Richard Coody]

See that narrow minded and short sightedness is rearing its ugly head with you also. Yes under ideal conditions it is solid advice. I have seen too many guys watch this stupid video and then create "head space" issues in their rifle. They all thought lets try this. So they go new brass and shot them. Then used that brass to reset their dies. Lonng story short the brass never filled the chamber on the first firing. So they all were over working their brass and giving them the appearance that their rifle is now out of spec. What is sad is what they were doing was working and their brass was lasting a long time.

Lets use one of my match rifles as a case study. As it explains the above well. I have a 30-06 when I fire factory ammo the shoulder moves forward but not anywhere near the shoulder in the chamber. At this point I have a choice. Anneal them to dead soft "over soften" and then fire form then or neck size for loading 2 and 3. After this point just bumping the shoulder works. So if I used the fired factory ammo to set my dies I would be over working my brass and it would look like I had head space issues. For the record it is just under max.

If he made that video just for us on accurate shooter then solid advice, but it is for everyone to see. If everyone was as savvy as us with reloading they could pick out what is good advice and what is poor to bad advice and take away the good. The reality is his rant (yes it is a rant) is giving out bad advice for the novice reloader.

whatever works for you

takes at least 3 firings for that base to shoulder datum .measurement to stabilize. shouldn't even bother setting up a shoulder bump until you can measure your fired brass and all have pretty much the same measurement. within a .001.

before then you can just set your full length die to size the neck and not touch the shoulder.

lee collet die something that bushing neck sizers don't. with it's mandrel it pushes brass imperfections to the outside. probably why many who are not using neck turned lapua brass get the results they do. i for one have found that using an expander mandrel as the last step in my sizing process gives me great control and consistency on neck tension. of course i use a range of mandrels in .0005 increments.

no matter what anyone says a custom die made from your fully fireformed brass is the best option. barely works the brass at all and is a custom fit to your chamber. now for you is it worth the cost? unless you own the reamer and have detailed notes on how the barrel was chambered that die won't be that perfect fit on a new barrel.

i am a firm believer in full length sizing. lots of good options out there. from a honed forster to a custom whidden. if that lee collet die works for you then have at it. i have used them in the past with good results. in fact i probably have a couple around here somewhere.

 

[mikecr]

You can have & use custom body dies just the same.
Then use separate neck bushing followed by expander mandrel to push thickness variance outward. And with this, you can avoid FL sizing of necks, which IMO should always be avoided.

With most factory hunting cartridges, FL sizing needs are well established as needed.
For more modern/improved cartridges, FL sizing is often not needed.
Some would suggest that you might as well go ahead and FL size then.

Ideally I would prefer zero sizing -ever. Otherwise, I prefer minimal sizing. So I choose my cartridges and chambers with this as part of a plan, and am successful with minimal sizing. I do not FL size.
The closest I get to zero sizing right now is with a fitted chamber in 26wssm Imp. I'm on my 3rd barrel with this, same 50 cases, no neck sizing or body sizing needed. Only a shoulder bumps every other reloading due to 35deg shoulders. Had I gone to 40 or 45deg, I would be at zero sizing. The advantages; no need for trimming, so my matched H20 capacities remain so, no dimensional changes, so no pockets opening, so these cases will last beyond my lifetime. No neck sizing means no hardening and no need to anneal or manage otherwise for exact same neck tension.
My load with this cartridge, which holds same capacity as a 260AI, is right at SAAMI max(per QL), giving me 3025fps w/139Laps, from 28" barrels. That's 47.4gr IMR4350.

With my next barrel I am going to pull shoulder back a bit and go to 45deg (for same capacity) and see if I can achieve zero sizing.
Outta be fun