Ever kill anything with a 108 Berger?

[Alex Wheeler]

Just wondering how the 108 Berger performs on deer sized game compared to a 105 hvld. Not much info out there. Thanks

 

[6BRAckley]

I have shot my 6 dasher for hunting the last 2 years. Last year I shot the Berger 108 BT and killed a whitetail doe at just over 300 yards...deer ran about 30 yards after being hit well and left a blood highway to easily track her. I considered that a success but was concerned that my limited results were more of an anomaly.

I shifted this year to the Berger 105 HVLD. The season started off well. I shot a very nice CA blacktail 4x4 buck at 406 yards on my first shot. He was bedded down and the bullet hit where I had placed my crosshair. He got up, took a couple of steps and piled up. That bullet performed nearly perfectly in my opinion, both in anchoring the animal and leaving a great blood trail. A few weeks later on my trip to Wyoming to shoot antelope doe I had mediocre results. I hit a nice doe on my first shot at 460 yards and she ran about 30-40 yards and just froze standing up. I walked up to within about 250 yards of her and shot her right in the neck to finish her off. That shot slammed her straight to the ground and I was satisfied that the bullet had performed well and the animal was dead and not suffering. When I got within about 50 yards of her I realized she had her head back up looking around as if nothing had happened. The bullet had essentially behaved like a full metal jacket and punched right through...leaving only a pin sized red mark on her neck. I shot her in the head and that finished her off. When we were skinning her we found the first bullet on the other side of her hide...it looked like a deformed bullet with a very thick jacket (almost like a deformed fmj). I have some pictures of it that I will attach to this thread. The lot of 105HVLDs that I shot my CA blacktail with were different than the ones that I shot in Wyoming (ran out of the first ones).

I decided after the Wyoming results, and some experiences a friend had encountered with 105HVLDs in his 6x47 Lapua and 6br a few years back when hunting out of state to move to another bullet next year. My friend said it best in my opinion - "When the Berger performs well it is awesome but unfortunately the performance is inconsistent"...at least in the smaller to mid range 6mm cases. I plan to shoot the 90gr Scirocco or newly announced Barnes 95gr LRX in the Dasher and also add a 284 winchester to my arsenal. I'll begin my load development for that rifle with the Hornady 162gr eldx and 150gr Scirocco. I love having my rifles shoot small groups which is why I chose Berger (rifle typically shot 3/8 inch 5 shot groups with both the 108 and 105s) but this upcoming year I am going to focus on finding a bullet designed first and foremost for hunting.

JP

 

[6BRAckley]

Pictures from CA hunt

 

[6BRAckley]

Pictures of bullet recovered from Wyoming antelope.

 

[Albany Mountain]

6mm 108 Berger is not a hunting bullet. The pictures and pin hole results look like target bullets but if they were the 105 vid hunting bullets, I would not use and might send to Berger for evaluation.

Wyoming game laws dictate expanding point bullets and Berger target bullets don’t qualify.

 

[rebel]

But the 105 was a hunting bullet. It didn't perform as advertised. Odd in that you were closer, hence more velocity. Apparently that lot did have much thicker jackets.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Berger hunting bullets aren't hunting bullets either. But some of them seem to have consistently good performance, others not so much. I have killed elk with 195s, 215s, and 300 grain hybrids. All resulted in fast one shot kills. The 215 is my favorite, wounds show great performance. Thanks for the results.

 

[Nobody]

Berger "Hunting" bullets explained.

I agree, they're not "hunting" bullets in the sense that we older hunters think of them, meaning jacketed with a bonded core that stays together and creates an exit wound.

I used them last season, and killed three deer DRT. They penetrated about 5" and flew apart doing massive internal damage in the thoracic cavity causing nearly instant death. There was almost no blood from all three, and it was darn near impossible to find the entry wound on the big buck.

I will probably burn up everything I loaded at the range, because despite their performance (exactly as advertised) I did not understand what they were before I loaded them all up. I just figured that "hunting" meant a thick jacket and a bonded core that would pass through a deer.

I don't like them. I figure that on a perfect H/L shot they're devastating, but on a bad shot (wounder shot) who knows? I can tell you that I doubt there'll be any blood trail to follow. Then again, they might do enough meat damage to cripple the deer if you hit it in the hindquarters or something. They're not for me. I can't complain, because I watched the video at the end of the hunting season, and they killed the deer perfectly, but my shots were perfect.

I've been hunting for 40 years. In all that time I've probably had to track only three deer, and I've never had one I shot get away wounded, but it can and will happen if you hunt long enough. It seems to me that exit wound is where most of the blood comes from, and not having one is a problem for me.

 

[Nobody]

Wrong video. Dang, I can't find it now!

Here's what they write, which is basically what's in the video:

The Hunting bullet line is proving to be the most lethal big game hunting bullets available. All of our Hunting bullets are made in the VLD or Hybrid designs. These designs incorporate a sharp nose and slightly thinner jacket that allows the bullet to penetrate 2” to 3” before it starts to expand. After the bullet starts to expand it will shed 40% to 85% of its weight as shrapnel into the surrounding tissue (internal organ). The combination between the shrapnel and the hydrostatic shock produces a massive wound cavity within the vital area (internal organs) that will be 13” to 15” long. This massive wound cavity results in the animal dropping fast since most go into shock after such a tremendous blow. Those animals that don’t go down immediately will soon succumb to blood pressure loss and/or organ failure producing a quick ethical kill. Our bullets don’t poke through like an arrow (high weight retention, deep penetration bullets) but instead dump their energy where it is most effective, inside the animal. Using the Berger VLD will result in an animal that goes down fast so you can enjoy the results of your hunt without having to track the wounded animal after the shot. You owe it to yourself to see how accurate and deadly the Berger Hunting VLD will be on your next hunt. To order a free 30 minute video that provides more detail on the bullets, cartridge and velocity used to take several animals at a variety of ranges call 714-441-7200.

 

[Nobody]

I guess what bothers me is that almost any target bullet will do the same thing, and essentially the terminal performance is to explode and dump all the energy, which is a good thing in some people's mind. I want an exit wound. That's that for me.

 

[timeout]

Pictures of bullet recovered from Wyoming antelope.

Not to hijack Alex's thread, but I pulled a similar looking 25 cal. 115 grain Berger HVLD from the dirt pile behind my 300 yard mark a few days ago. Made me shake my head a little. In full disclosure it penetrated some 3/8" plywood first and some of the dirt was frozen. Now in all fairness, I've had some really good wound channels on whitetail with 105 Berger HVLD's from a 6 Dasher and most all one shot kills, but bullets like shown above are concerning. We do some deer drives and hunt semi populated area, so I prefer not to have pass through bullets. Were I still hunting remote area, I would probably prefer the pass through type hunting bullets.

 

[rebel]

I have no doubt they work. As well as other target bullets. I am just wondering why they didn't work on the antelope ( 105 HVLDs)? Glad you recovered it any way, good shooting.

 

[Richard Coody]

i trim the meplate on all my hunting bergers. make sure that tip is open. i think that is why most of the failures to expand occur.

 

[DocDoc]

Those recovered bullets look like a closed/clogged tip and a bullet that tumbled after impact.

 

[Mr. Ten-X]

Have never been a fan of simple cup/core designs for use in hunting. Inconsistent expansion and penetration are the issue. Many cup/core will grenade on impact and others will pencil through with little energy dump or massive tissue damage. Will the animal die and did the bullet do its duty, technically? Well, yeah...kinda.

Give me something with a tapered jacket and a means of securing the core (either by bonding or interlock method). Controlled expansion and good penetration will give you a broader margin of error under varying hunting situations (shot angle, encountering heavier bone, etc).

Am willing to sacrifice a little BC for the piece of mind a controlled expansion bullet gives on what might be an expensive hunt or the animal of a lifetime? Every single time Also recognize that I started hunting (successfully) from the ground with a stick bow in the middle 60's. My MO is more to "hunt" rather than rely on my shooting ability because that's how I learned as a young woodsman.

 

[timeout]

i trim the meplate on all my hunting bergers. make sure that tip is open. i think that is why most of the failures to expand occur.

Good tip! Pardon the pun. I have read this before but it seems troublesome that one buying hunting bullets needs to rework them. I love the consistency and accuracy of Bergers, so maybe worth the extra expense and work? I will need to do a search here on metplat trimming.

 

[nakneker]

The vibe I’m getting ont his thread is Bergers aren’t a very good choice for big game hunting. I don’t have any experience with the 6mm 108s. I do have a lot of experience with the 7mm 180 & 168VLD hunters. They are my favorite, especially for distance.

I’ve used them here in the West in three rifles I shoot and a rifle set up for kids, I take a lot of kids hunting (nieces and nephews), and have shot a lot of elk, deer and bears with no bad experiences. I tried them in South Africa last year on game as small as Bushbuck all the way up to Eland and they performed excellent, left an impression with my guide. Only on animal took a follow up shot and that was due to my poor shot placement too far back through the gut.

It took me awhile to warm up to them. I use to shoot factory corelokts with good results, when I started reloading the partition was my main bullet, I like Speer bonded too. However most of my big game hunting now is done with Bergers, the 300 grain out of a 338L has been spectacular on the limited experience I have with it but to watch a 12 & 14 year old girl shoot Elk between 475 and 720 is fun to watch. I have a terminator brake on that rifle and those girls shoot it well.

I’m not the kind to dig bullets out and pool at them. I do look at the chest cavaity of most of the animals we shoot when they are ya going in the barn and like what I see. I just go off what I’ve seen and been a part of.

Like I said, I don’t have any experience with the 6mms but I do have a lot of faith in the 7mms and big 338 Bergers.

 

[Capt. Oblivious]

Last year we shot and killed koedoe, blue wildebeest, black wildebeest, blesbuck, zebra and Impala from 50y to 800y with VLDs, Hybrids and classic hunters in 6slr, 6.5creed, 30.06 and 300wm from 95gr all the way to 215gr. I think 1 blesbuck needed a second shot to put him down with a 6.5 but he wasnt going anywhere. The 140gr and 215gr Hybrids are FANTASTIC hunting bullets with the rest also not doing to bad.
As long as a bullet comes in a yellow (well or orange) box ill shoot them at steel, paper and animals. In the next couple months ill be testing 105gr HVLDs at real speed on blesbuck but Im sure I already know what the results will be.

I havnt used the 108s on anything as I have never seen any for sale over here :-( but I used a couple 105BTs on warthogs out of a 243 a couple years ago and they got the job done but they werent as "explosive" if I remeber correctly

 

[Alex Wheeler]

I have never had a failure with a Berger, actually I like their performance. But I do not discount the experiences of people I know that have had failures and recovered the game to verify it. I'll continue to use them. I do use more than enough gun for what I hunt and make very sure the shot is well placed, so far I have never tracked an animal with them. I do tend to stick with the ones with a good reputation which is why I asked on the 108.

 

[dkhunt14]

I have seen Bergers and Sierras with closed or clogged tips. They seem to pencil when this bullet is used. I make sure they are open. Matt