GFL Brass -

[Lapua40X]

Found some once fired .223 brass and worked to clean it up for some reloads.
Unfamiliar with the headstamp of "GFL" (Guilio-Fiocchi-Lecco) but I didn't research it right away.
After cleaning it all up and reaming the primer pockets I noticed that the flash holes in some of the brass were off center; like waaaaay off center. Obviously I won't be using this stuff. Here's a comparison between Winchester, Lapua, and GFL for anyone interested:

 

[jonbearman]

Its fine for plinking but I agree that it isn't the best choice for target by any means. I have seen almost every brand exhibit flash holes being off center.I cull them out and use them at shoots(imformal) and let them lay so to speak. Basically scrap at just a couple firings for the plinking we do.

 

[bigedp51]

The cure for off center flash holes is to use Remington 7 1/2 primers. : (they were also the main ignition system used on the space shuttle)

With iron sights or a red dot optics, along with bifocals and chronologically gifted eyesight a off center flash hole means very little with rifles that throw perfectly good brass away.

 

[Ropemaker]

Those look pretty good compared to some I have, both GFL & Fiochhi USA brass from factory loads.

Here is what I found on the same subject.

A couple 3 yrs. ago, Cabela's had Fiochhi 40vm factory for $18+/- for 50ct bx, so bought 10 bxs fo pd's. My Savage would only do abt. 1.5-2" @ 200 yds but my SIL's Remmy liked them to the tune of 1" or less @ 200 at 3700+ fps out of 26" bbl.
He doesn't reload, so I had 500 of those cases to use. Couldn't get groups w/o flyers on reloads, sometimes groups of 2's & 3's but not close to each other. Got to looking, found flash holes looking like cut with hatchet. Some long, off center, triangular, you name it and then the sizes were mere pin pricks to gashes. So why did they shoot so good in the Remmy???
Me thinks that .082" is max on flash hole size, so did some reaming to uniform the flash holes at least to somewhat spherical and try again. They cleaned up nicely, not necessarily centered, but at least round and closer to same size. Got put on back burner when I was able to get 500 LC11 unfired cases and haven't got to try out the reamed brass as yet.
By the way, Fiochhi / GFL brass is heavy---runs in the 98-99gr per mty case as compared to 91-92 for LC, RP, WW, FC, HRN brass.
So, yeah, probably not match grade even with all the prepping, but would do just fine for the spray & pray's or as hunting larger critters where small groups aren't as necessary.
Maybe one of these days I'll get around to trying the reamed cases.

Ropemaker

 

[nicholst55]

I found worse flash holes than that on new Winchester .22-250 brass that I bought a few years ago. Two cases out of the bag had long rectangular flash holes! No more Winchester brass for me...

 

[Minesweeper3433]

I shoot cases of PMC 223 ammo through my carbine at training events and the like so I started saving the brass a while back. Turns out most of the flash holes are way off center as well. However I did some load work up and managed to get 1 inch groups for 5 rounds at 200 yards. So for me I'll keep using them at least in my carbine for longer range loads.

 

[andy g]

I don't mind gfl brass, It seems to be fine by me. I like to use all kinds of brass and believe it or not some of my best groups have been with mixed brass. Yes I can hear it now o yah this guy doesn't know shit from shinola. But for years I would shoot 50 rounds a day of 44 mag in a Ruger super blackhawk and could hold a 4" six shot group at 100 yrds with open sights and a good bench rest. The brass did not seem to matter. 45acp 3 to 6 mags a day 25 yrds. one hand hold 3 inch groups with any of 6 45 that I shoot. Brass does not seem to matter. 204 Ruger in a Savage 110 300 yrds 6 shot groups could be covered with a quarter and meny with a nickel and some almost with a dime. Not measuring some flyers. But only used winchester brass. 223 in a Savage m25 one hole, yes one hole at 100 yrds and out to 1 & 1/2 inch, six shot groups using mixed brass, wolf mag primers, and Winchester 748 25.0 or 25.5 gr., with a 55 gr fmj.
To me it seems to be the gun, and being able to hold it are the most important then the loads. I have also found that a the drop charge is more consistent then a weight charge. Case length, bullet seating and crimp is far more important than case head stamp. Seating your bullets as close to the lands as you can and trim your brass to all the same length then you will see that I mean. It may sound like bs but give it a try.

 

[LHSmith]

204 Ruger in a Savage 110 300 yrds 6 shot groups could be covered with a quarter and meny with a nickel and some almost with a dime. Not measuring some flyers.

Welcome to the site. For the record - for most on this site the flyers are factored in to the group size and not discounted.

 

[jds holler]

Welcome to the site. For the record - for most on this site the flyers are factored in to the group size and not discounted.

Dang!! I was hoping to start a rule that you are allowed one "Mulligan" on each group. jd

 

[andy g]

Sorry, I was unaware of your rules. I like to shoot for fun and I do not take a lot of time squeezing the trigger so I do get flyers, and when I can call them I do not measure them in The reason for my post was not for the group size, but for the importance of the brass that is used. I see now that I am talking to people that know how to shoot and what to shoot and are at the top of there game and that my post was of no value. So please pardon me for my misunderstanding.

 

[LHSmith]

Sorry, I was unaware of your rules. I like to shoot for fun and I do not take a lot of time squeezing the trigger so I do get flyers, and when I can call them I do not measure them in The reason for my post was not for the group size, but for the importance of the brass that is used. I see now that I am talking to people that know how to shoot and what to shoot and are at the top of there game and that my post was of no value. So please pardon me for my misunderstanding.

The site caters to rifle accuracy nuts. Your input has value to those like yourself that simply enjoy plinking while keeping reloading costs minimal. However, your experience runs counter to what most members on this forum find necessary to obtain maximum accuracy. As you become familiar with the extreme detail that some of our members go through to avoid flyers and shoot small, you will find they will buy in large lots, 500 -1000 cases at a time, costing as much as $2 or per piece, then sometimes batching them by weight-or by volume, deburr the flash holes, uniform the primer pockets, turn the necks down to gain precise wall thickness, and perhaps more that they don't want to divulge. That's just for those that shoot standard cartridges. Those that shoot wildcats have even more prep work. You did not violate any rules.

 

[jk80]

Hi andy. I'm a shotgun shooter just getting to get more serious about rifle shooting with an eye on trying f class. I don't think LHSmith meant anything by his comment other than just explaining measuring group size. Think if you give this site a chance you'll pick up a lot of good information and people willing to help. I've been a lurker on here for awhile and it's the best site I've seen so far about everything from reloading, rifle builds, and equipment. Just joined and am still impressed with the knowledge on here.

 

[chop house]

there are actually two versions of fiocchi .223 brass out there. one has periods (g.f.l.) and the other does not (gfl). one is from extrema line (vmaxs) and one from shooting dynamics (blasting fmjs). can't recall which is which, but they differ in weight, capacity, and anneal (at least).

since i decap by hand, clean up flash holes, and don't shoot competition their poor quality control on punching the brass doesn't bother me too much. i have assembled some pretty accurate .223 loads using the extrema line. not so the shooting dynamics stuff.

what does however bother me about the .223 vmax loads is the very poor ES, measured repeatedly in the 100 fps range. once the holes are cleaned up the reloads do not exhibit this, so ... who knows?

 

[andy g]

Sounds good to me. Like I said I shoot for fun, I am 64 years old and my eyes are not what they used to be.

Years ago I used to weigh my bullets and test different powders and weights even weighed the brass to make sure everything was the same. At that time Sierra bullets and Winchester brass were the most consistent and Federal primers were the most sensitive. I never shot over 200 yrds. so I never needed to get any more serious then that. Over the years I found that for all my efforts of the best loads I was able to make, the taking my time, taking a slow steady trigger pull and running a patch or two down the barrel after every 3 shot group. That it really did not seem to make that much of a difference then just taking any brass ( as long as the neck is tight on the bullet) loading with a good powder charge, and acquiring my target and squeezing the trigger. So that is what I do.
The thing is I do have a rifle range in my backyard and can shoot when I want and what I want. I shoot as a rule over 7000 45 acp rounds a year. A lot of 9mm, 40 s&w, some 45 colt and 44 mag. Also I shoot ? thousands of 223 some using a bump fire, most not, also some 243, 300wm, 308 win. 6.5x55 in a 1907 swedish mauser, 204, 22-250, 30-30 levers, 7mm-08, 30 carbine, 7.62x39, 7.62x54, there may be some others.
Bottom line is I like to shoot and the more I would shoot the better I got. As the old saying goes practise practise practise.

Here is a good story for you one of my neighbors last name Dempsey shoots shotgun about every day. He went to shoot competition and when he went people would make sly remarks about his gun and shy away from him, the gun he had was a winchester model 12. Everyone else had BENELLI, BERETTA, PERAZZI, BLASER, but when the shooting started the model 12 put most all of them to shame, no more sly remarks. Ends up he came in second in state.

 

[Conan87]

I know this is old.. lol however I just finished prepping a batch of G.F.L. brass.. to me it looks extremely good. Flash holes look centered and after weighing each case I'm not sure I will find anything much better lol less than .9g from min to max. I am not the extreme reloader that a lot of people are, I don't sort cases or usually weigh them. Quite honestly from what I have seen it makes minimal difference. My handloads with "sloppy" QC consistently shoots .5 moa or better out of my 308, I haven't had any match grade ammo shoot better. To me case cleaning and consistency in powder measure along with seating is all I need. I realize there is always room to improve and maybe one day I'll start haha.

 

[Twicepop]

I found worse flash holes than that on new Winchester .22-250 brass that I bought a few years ago. Two cases out of the bag had long rectangular flash holes! No more Winchester brass for me...

I had a bunch of Winchester .45ACP brass that had humungus flash holes. There was barely enough of a bottom of the primer pocket to seat a primer on. It wasn't just Winchester stamped, some were stamped WIN, some were stamped WCC. I called a rep at Winchester to see if they would replace them, he said I had to have the vendor that sold them to me do that, it wasn't their problem. I said he only sold them, you made them, are you going to stand by your product. His response was, is there anything else I can do for you. A few months back someone wrote into HANDLOADER magazine with the same problem.

 

[chop house]

I called a rep at Winchester to see if they would replace them, he said I had to have the vendor that sold them to me do that, it wasn't their problem.

a couple years back i got some 22-250 WW from cabelas. culled almost 40% during the sorting, initial inspection, and prep. took samples back to the store and they without hesitation replaced with equal amount of (i think) hornady and told me to keep the WW and did not charge me the boot.

in other words, known issue and i won't touch WW brass again.

 

[E4TL34D]

I shoot cases of PMC 223 ammo through my carbine at training events and the like so I started saving the brass a while back. Turns out most of the flash holes are way off center as well. However I did some load work up and managed to get 1 inch groups for 5 rounds at 200 yards. So for me I'll keep using them at least in my carbine for longer range loads.

Wow! What bullets were you using?

 

[tsyarnall]

Welcome to the site, Andy. Like you, I am 64 , but I like to pretend that I can still hit a fly’s behind at 500 yards.
You will find this to be a tremendous site for learning as much as you’d like about the art of precision shooting. Enjoy yourself and read some of the great articles and forum threads. If you like it, maybe consider becoming a Silver or Gold member.

Scott

 

[David Eberts]

About 4 years ago I bought a ammo can of Fiocchi .223 40 gr. nylon tip ( I think it was 250 rounds ) from Cabelas, good price,poor choice. I save brass cause I reload. upon inspecting the Fiocchi brass I found cracks in the necks of about 10/15 % of those cases. Dangerous and totally unaceptable. Before you jump to conclusions, I do not have a chamber problem as I had run about 500 rounds of remington and winchester ammo without any problems before the Fiocchi debacle, and around a thousand to fifteen hundred rounds of reloads since then with no problems. Upon close inspection of the cracked Fiocchi necks I saw that the brass was much thinner where the crack was ( even to the naked eye) And as far as flash holes go- ditto on all the above posts. So much for Fiocchi quality control , or lack of. You can bet that I will never buy anything with a Foicchi label on it, EVER. Fair winds and following seas. Phantom Phixer