Short necked virgin brass. Is this to be expected?

[FatOldMIHunter]

I've never bought a new rifle and started reloading for it right out of the gate, so please bear with me. With the virgin Hornady brass that I bought to feed it, after FL sizing the shoulder is perfectly located for chambering but the case lengths measured .025" shorter than the trim to length and .035" shorter than the max length. That's that much further from the lands that I have to seat the bullet just to get enough bearing surface to hold it. I am having to seat the Barnes solid copper bullet back .110 from the lands just to get .150" of bearing surface into the neck. I could go lower on the bearing surface, but no way am I getting within .020 of the lands with that bullet and it has an Ogive that is much closer than some of the longer and heavier but narrower bullets available (Berger Hunting and Nosler Accubond).

In short, I really could have used those necks to be closer to max. I would much rather have trimmed right after the initial FL sizing than to have to grow these cases by firing them multiple times. Is this normal for all virgin brass or is this just a Hornady thing?

 

[Dans40X]

Contact Hornady w/ the lot number(s) of your chosen virgin brass & thank them for producing JUNK!

 

[retired]

part of the problem is the factory chamber and/or your choice of bullet.
is there a bullet that gets close to the lands with good neck hold ?
i have a 308 that will touch the lands with a horn 130 spire point but is
160 thou short at 2.830 with a smk 168.

 

[FatOldMIHunter]

part of the problem is the factory chamber and/or your choice of bullet.
is there a bullet that gets close to the lands with good neck hold ?
i have a 308 that will touch the lands with a horn 130 spire point but is
160 thou short at 2.830 with a smk 168.

I could agree that part of my problem is my choice of caliber (6.5x55 Swede). Most barrel manufacturers of this caliber give it more free bore than anybody makes bullets long enough for. But the solid copper bullets of Barnes have to be longer because of their lower density. That's one of the reasons that I chose them, to allow me to set them as close to the lands as I can.



But you didn't really answer my question. Is it just a poor choice of brass makers, or do they all do this? My reloading experience has mainly been with once fired brass for Remington and Lake City. This is my first experience with reloading virgin brass.

 

[243winxb]

Look and see if SAAMI has a standard for your cartridge. Edit add: It does. http://www.saami.org/specifications_and_information/index.cfm

See cartridge and chamber drawings. 2.165" -.020" or a minimum of 2.145" trim length.

3.150" is maximum OAL.

You did not list your measurements?

 

[243winxb]

Is it just a poor choice of brass makers, or do they all do this?

Manufacturers should follow SAAMI standards.

Hornady does not on 2 , if i remember correctly, because of there special bullet designs or weight/length of the bullet.

 

[FatOldMIHunter]

Look and see if SAAMI has a standard for your cartridge. http://www.saami.org/specifications_and_information/index.cfm

See cartridge and chamber drawings. 2.165" -.020" or a minimum of 2.145"

3.150" is maximum OAL.

You did not list your measurements?

The Hornady brass was 2.130 +-.001 after FLS, so .015 under minimum. Is that normal? Are they expecting it to grow into spec from fire forming? What do other brass makers provide?

 

[243winxb]

See post 6.

Brass should not be that short. Brass will not grow enough. Return or contact Hornady.

 

[FatOldMIHunter]

Manufacturers should follow SAAMI standards.

Hornady does not on 2 , if i remember correctly, because of there special bullet designs or weight/length of the bullet.

On 2?

 

[FatOldMIHunter]

See post 6.

Brass should not be that short. Brass will not grow enough. Return or contact Hornady.

Will do. In the meantime, who should I buy from?

 

[243winxb]

On 2 cartridges, Hornady brass length is shorter than SAAMI standards. Leverevolution ammo

If i remember correctly, .45-70 and 357 mag.

 

[243winxb]

who should I buy from?

No idea. Midwayusa has 4 kinds available.https://www.midwayusa.com/65x55mm-swedish-mauser/br?cid=7370

Good luck.

 

[FatOldMIHunter]

On 2 cartridges, Hornady brass length is shorter than SAAMI standards. Leverevolution ammo

If i remember correctly, .45-70 and 357 mag.

Looks like I have to add the 6.5X55 to that distinguished list. I've emailed Hornady. Thanks.

 

[timeout]

Will do. In the meantime, who should I buy from?

Lapua. I will admit to using some Prvi though for some plinking rounds in a 25-06 with good results. I do a thorough job of brass prep before loading though.

 

[FatOldMIHunter]

This is getting frustrating. I ordered Lapua brass and measured it when it arrived. It's .013" below the minimum SAAMI spec at 2.132". What are the odds of two different suppliers providing below spec brass? Thinking there might just be an error in how I am squaring up the cases on the jaws of the calipers, I install the Hornady headspace comparator on one jaw to give the case a platform to sit on rather than a knife edge. After zeroing it, the case length measurement while sitting over the hole on the comparator is +-.020" inches longer and puts the brass with the SAAMI spec. WTF? This seems to confirm that sitting the case on a large flat table is better than sitting it directly on the jaw of the caliper.

But I am aware that the headspace comparator is not designed for this and might be canted on the jaw, so I also try it with the Hornady Bullet (ogive) comparator which also isn't designed to be a base for the case. Using that as a base, it indicates the same length as the headspace comparator. So both of these tools almost convince me that the brass (both brands) is within the SAAMI spec and that I was simply measuring the case length wrongly.

So I ordered the Hornady Anvil Base, which is the only tool I know of that is specifically designed as a platform for the case base while measuring the COL, base-to-ogive, and base-to-shoulder datum. It's supposed to make these measurements more consistent by eliminating tilting of the case between the jaws. I am aware that it might become canted on the jaw, which would introduce a tilt and cause the length to indicate higher than it is, but at least it is something.

I installed the anvil base and zeroed the calipers. The case length measurements returned to the below minimum spec measurements that I got with no base installed. WTF again? The anvil base is a definite improvement. It makes the case behave while taking the measurement, but it didn't make the case grow +-.020" like the other tools.

So I'm back to having below spec brass. What do I do now? I'm tempted to just start using it. Maybe they aren't building it to SAAMI specs and maybe that doesn't matter because the barrel is not made in the USA. That still doesn't help with my COL issue, but what else am I to do?

 

[Hanbleceya]

I've never bought a new rifle and started reloading for it right out of the gate, so please bear with me. With the virgin Hornady brass that I bought to feed it, after FL sizing the shoulder is perfectly located for chambering but the case lengths measured .025" shorter than the trim to length and .035" shorter than the max length. That's that much further from the lands that I have to seat the bullet just to get enough bearing surface to hold it. I am having to seat the Barnes solid copper bullet back .110 from the lands just to get .150" of bearing surface into the neck. I could go lower on the bearing surface, but no way am I getting within .020 of the lands with that bullet and it has an Ogive that is much closer than some of the longer and heavier but narrower bullets available (Berger Hunting and Nosler Accubond).

In short, I really could have used those necks to be closer to max. I would much rather have trimmed right after the initial FL sizing than to have to grow these cases by firing them multiple times. Is this normal for all virgin brass or is this just a Hornady thing?

Ask these people if it would behoove you to consider having barrel rethroated to a given/chosen bullet and not looking back.

Here's one to spark disagreement: Getting significant readings from caliper on some new Hornady cases, I noticed minute burrs on the headstamps. So I flat-sanded the heads with 800 grit sandpaper just enough to level them, then tumbled them back to a shine. Affects nothing but unnecessary brass and contributes to more consistent and trustworthy reading whenever using calipers.

 

[FatOldMIHunter]

Ask these people if it would behoove you to consider having barrel rethroated to a given/chosen bullet and not looking back.

Here's one to spark disagreement: Getting significant readings from caliper on some new Hornady cases, I noticed minute burrs on the headstamps. So I flat-sanded the heads with 800 grit sandpaper just enough to level them, then tumbled them back to a shine. Affects nothing but unnecessary brass and contributes to more consistent and trustworthy reading whenever using calipers.

Are you telling me that steel can somehow be added back so the throat can be shortened? Because the problem with the throat is that the available bullets are too short to get near the lands. And the problem with the brass is that it is too short. Didn't I make that clear?

 

[JRS]

You have three lengths. SAAMI minimum, SAAMI maximum and Manufacturers Initial length. No two manufacturers are exactly the same.

 

[FatOldMIHunter]

You have three lengths. SAAMI minimum, SAAMI maximum and Manufacturers Initial length. No two manufacturers are exactly the same.

The question is what to do when the Manufacturers Initial Length falls significantly below SAAMI minimum? This has happened with both Hornady and Lapua. In the case of the Hornady, full length resizing did not increase the length. Case length can affect the seating depth, so I would think that it's an important issue, but nobody is addressing it.

 

[JRS]

The question is what to do when the Manufacturers Initial Length falls significantly below SAAMI minimum? This has happened with both Hornady and Lapua. In the case of the Hornady, full length resizing did not increase the length. Case length can affect the seating depth, so I would think that it's an important issue, but nobody is addressing it.

The brass is made to chamber in all types of rifles containing different chamber lengths, and the manufactures realize the brass is going to lengthen each time it is resized.