New .224 Matchking...

[LA50SHOOTER]

You will have a hard time getting to 2800 without destroying brass (according to Q/L) with most any powder that I computed. unless running a very long barrel. (And slower powder)

Maybe in a 22-250 or a swift ............. For LR ---------

 

[1lnbrdg]

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1...-224-diameter-95-grain-hollow-point-boat-tail

No details on Sierra's website or Facebook page yet.

Too early to be April 1's type post . . . . .

 

[XTR]

You will have a hard time getting to 2800 without destroying brass (according to Q/L) with most any powder that I computed. unless running a very long barrel. (And slower powder)

For comparison sake, what does your QL run tell you about the 90VLD. How long are you putting the OAL? Three inch 223s are not out of the question. I know for an absolute fact that I can run 90VLDs at 2800 and get half a dozen reloads from my LC brass before I start tossing them for loose pockets.(I am running a 28" 1:7 tube right now)

There are some F class 223 shooters who run the 90s in the range of 2850 and still get about 4 reloads on Lapua brass.

Barrels longer than 30 don't buy you much of anything in a 223 (or a 308 for that matter), there just isn't enough boiler to use a powder that will keep the pressure up and continue to accelerate the bullet. You may get 15FPS out of an additional 2", but I wouldn't bet on it.

 

[XTR]

Unless the reported "0.6" BC is banded, the G7 BC should be approximately 0.306, with about another 4% increase if they aren't pointed yet...can't tell from the picture. That is approximately an 11.7% increase over the Berger 90 VLD (0.274 G7 BC), which is a marked improvement. These could likely be pushed at about 2775 fps with H4895, which translates to approximately 0.8 MOA advantage at 1000 yd (6.3 vs 7.1 MOA) and 0.3 MOA even at only 600 yd (3.4 vs 3.7 MOA). If the precision is comparable, these will be a game-changer. Compare the predicted Sierra 95 gr windage at 1000 yd (6.3 MOA) to the predicted value for a Berger 200.20X (un-pointed) going 2680 fps of 6.1 MOA. That's a pretty small difference that could be more than made up by the relative lack of recoil from the .223.

Greg, I think that no matter the BC in a 223 the difficulty in getting the kind of ES with the small case that is achievable in a 308 will keep it from being a contender at 1000 yards. I could be wrong, but for most people it is just too hard to get the vertical at 1000 yards to the point that it will be competitive in F class. I've got 2 targets one from 900yds and one from 700m that show my .20x load holds in the range of high .3s to low .4s vertical for 15 shots.

 

[dcali]

As much as I want this to work for F T/R, I'm expecting this to be a great mid/long range bullet for bigger .22's. .22-250, .22 BR, etc. I guess we'll see - I've been wrong plenty before.

 

[ballisticdaddy]

Highly Unlikely with that case capacity unless your willing to shoot Lapua & "bin" every one after firing at that velocity. (I base my assessment on Q/L)

You will have a hard time getting to 2800 without destroying brass (according to Q/L) with most any powder that I computed. unless running a very long barrel. (And slower powder)

I recently chambered a .223 rifle for the 90 VLD and have it moving 2,830 FPS with 4 firings on Lapua brass and primer pockets are still holding tight using Varget in a 30" barrel. (I base my assessment/results on real life testing)

 

[Zero333]

Highly Unlikely with that case capacity unless your willing to shoot Lapua & "bin" every one after firing at that velocity. (I base my assessment on Q/L)

With the proper freebore and assuming the bullet is 1.300" long here are the results I got at 60,000 psi ...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Cartridge : .223 Rem.
Bullet : .224, 95 gr Custom VLD
Useable Case Capaci: 25.026 grain H2O = 1.625 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.650 inch = 67.31 mm
Barrel Length : 30.0 inch = 762.0 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 60000 psi, or 413 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 107 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
% Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
--------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
ReloadSwiss RS 60 107.0 25.9 1.68 2869 100.0 59334 6010 1.345 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-17 106.5 25.8 1.67 2862 100.0 60000 5988 1.345 ! Near Maximum !
Elcho 17 106.5 25.8 1.67 2862 100.0 60000 5988 1.345 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H414 105.4 25.7 1.67 2812 98.3 60000 6057 1.363 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester 760 105.4 25.7 1.67 2812 98.3 60000 6057 1.363 ! Near Maximum !
PB Clermont PCL 511 107.0 26.3 1.70 2796 98.7 58133 6075 1.377 ! Near Maximum !
SNPE Vectan SP 11 103.9 24.8 1.60 2793 100.0 60000 5661 1.367 ! Near Maximum !
ReloadSwiss RS 52 102.8 24.5 1.59 2792 100.0 60000 5611 1.370 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon CFE223 95.0 24.4 1.58 2788 100.0 60000 5580 1.369 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N550 107.0 25.2 1.63 2787 99.6 58012 5948 1.389 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Big Game 100.6 24.7 1.60 2785 100.0 60000 5586 1.369 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4895 100.0 23.1 1.50 2779 100.0 60000 5598 1.381 ! Near Maximum !
ReloadSwiss RS 70 107.0 26.3 1.70 2775 98.9 54431 6217 1.402 ! Near Maximum !
ReloadSwiss RS 62 107.0 25.9 1.68 2773 99.6 54925 5900 1.409 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 203B 101.4 23.4 1.52 2767 100.0 60000 5531 1.384 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP11 ~approximation 100.8 23.3 1.51 2767 99.9 60000 5570 1.384 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-15 100.8 23.3 1.51 2767 99.9 60000 5570 1.384 ! Near Maximum !
Raufoss RA11 100.8 23.3 1.51 2767 99.9 60000 5570 1.384 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon BL-C2 95.4 24.0 1.56 2767 100.0 60000 5466 1.384 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 203 old 103.1 24.1 1.56 2765 100.0 60000 5448 1.392 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP3 103.1 24.1 1.56 2765 100.0 60000 5448 1.392 ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R903 105.4 24.1 1.56 2757 100.0 60000 5386 1.393 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester 748 92.9 23.1 1.49 2756 100.0 60000 5230 1.378 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H380 102.1 24.1 1.56 2754 99.5 60000 5637 1.389 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Wild Boar 95.6 23.6 1.53 2749 100.0 60000 5447 1.383 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4895 97.1 22.4 1.45 2749 100.0 60000 5386 1.388 ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S355 105.2 23.7 1.54 2748 100.0 60000 5404 1.392 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4320 102.7 23.3 1.51 2745 100.0 60000 5353 1.372 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2206H 97.4 22.5 1.46 2745 100.0 60000 5421 1.389 ! Near Maximum !
PB Clermont PCL 516 98.2 24.1 1.56 2743 99.5 60000 5563 1.384 ! Near Maximum !
ReloadSwiss RS 50 100.2 24.1 1.56 2740 99.6 60000 5498 1.387 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 3031 100.8 21.7 1.41 2739 100.0 60000 4949 1.385 ! Near Maximum !
SNPE Vectan SP 9 98.1 23.4 1.51 2739 100.0 60000 5387 1.385 ! Near Maximum !
Elcho TR140 - preliminary data 101.5 24.2 1.57 2735 99.6 60000 5469 1.389 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 4064 103.2 23.3 1.51 2734 100.0 60000 5075 1.415 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex D073.6 97.8 23.3 1.51 2731 100.0 60000 5072 1.399 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2520 95.6 23.3 1.51 2731 100.0 60000 5072 1.399 ! Near Maximum !
PB Clermont PCL 507 94.5 22.8 1.47 2728 100.0 60000 5219 1.388 ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S321 92.7 23.0 1.49 2728 100.0 60000 5244 1.394 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP7 NT ~approximation 103.3 24.0 1.56 2722 98.3 60000 5518 1.375 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon VARGET 103.1 23.0 1.49 2722 99.9 60000 5371 1.384 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2208 102.8 23.0 1.49 2722 99.9 60000 5371 1.384 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex S062 101.8 22.8 1.48 2721 100.0 60000 5164 1.399 ! Near Maximum !
SNPE Vectan SP 7 96.2 23.8 1.54 2720 99.4 60000 5405 1.398 ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S341 96.3 23.9 1.55 2720 100.0 60000 5224 1.388 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot TAC 95.1 23.7 1.53 2718 99.1 60000 5486 1.392 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N530 93.6 21.7 1.41 2717 100.0 60000 5150 1.390 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4064 103.9 22.6 1.47 2713 99.9 60000 5239 1.390 ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R907 106.6 24.1 1.56 2712 97.5 60000 5580 1.397 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP7 106.6 24.1 1.56 2712 97.5 60000 5580 1.397 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N540 100.3 23.4 1.52 2712 100.0 60000 5105 1.394 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP3 NT ~approximation 105.4 24.2 1.57 2712 99.0 60000 5415 1.383 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 4350 107.0 24.7 1.60 2712 99.2 52151 5771 1.455
IMR 4007 SSC 103.3 24.2 1.57 2712 97.5 60000 5575 1.397 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2495 97.2 21.9 1.42 2710 100.0 60000 4873 1.424 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 201 98.5 22.2 1.44 2709 100.0 60000 5143 1.406 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 8208 XBR 95.7 22.1 1.43 2708 100.0 60000 5087 1.392 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H335 88.4 22.2 1.44 2708 100.0 60000 4986 1.392 ! Near Maximum !
Norma URP 107.0 24.4 1.58 2707 99.2 52102 5770 1.444
Bofors RP19 ~approximation 107.0 24.4 1.58 2706 99.1 52051 5767 1.445
Norma 202 98.0 22.2 1.44 2706 100.0 60000 4970 1.398 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Hunter 107.0 25.5 1.65 2705 97.7 51808 5938 1.444
SNPE Vectan SP 10 88.0 21.7 1.40 2703 100.0 60000 4948 1.395 ! Near Maximum !
PB Clermont PCL 508 (PCL223) 87.9 21.7 1.41 2702 100.0 60000 4941 1.396 ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R902 100.4 22.3 1.45 2699 100.0 60000 5068 1.408 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 204 107.0 25.5 1.65 2699 95.1 54970 5845 1.419 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot X-Terminator 92.7 22.8 1.48 2694 100.0 60000 5165 1.398 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex S065 107.0 24.1 1.56 2694 98.8 57459 5501 1.422 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex D073.5 91.5 22.6 1.47 2694 100.0 60000 4943 1.412 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2460 91.2 22.6 1.47 2694 100.0 60000 4943 1.412 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2219 88.0 21.0 1.36 2693 100.0 60000 4809 1.391 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H322 93.6 21.0 1.36 2693 100.0 60000 4809 1.391 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2230 90.9 22.7 1.47 2689 100.0 60000 5004 1.405 ! Near Maximum !
ReloadSwiss RS 40 90.0 21.2 1.37 2687 100.0 60000 4842 1.397 ! Near Maximum !

 

[steve123]

WOW!!! .6 G1BC

I might have to reconsider doing a 223AI after all. Or maybe I'll go with 224V, or even a 224V AI. I'm all for the lowest recoil I can get away with.

 

[LA50SHOOTER]

I recently chambered a .223 rifle for the 90 VLD and have it moving 2,830 FPS with 4 firings on Lapua brass and primer pockets are still holding tight using Varget in a 30" barrel. (I base my assessment/results on real life testing)

Yeah, and right now were are discussing a 95 gr. bullet that neither of us can measure the actual bearing surface on. - So go ahead - Push it to the MAX - and I bet accuracy isn't all that either.

 

[Berger.Fan222]

For comparison sake, what does your QL run tell you about the 90VLD. How long are you putting the OAL? Three inch 223s are not out of the question. I know for an absolute fact that I can run 90VLDs at 2800 and get half a dozen reloads from my LC brass before I start tossing them for loose pockets.(I am running a 28" 1:7 tube right now)

There are some F class 223 shooters who run the 90s in the range of 2850 and still get about 4 reloads on Lapua brass.

Barrels longer than 30 don't buy you much of anything in a 223 (or a 308 for that matter), there just isn't enough boiler to use a powder that will keep the pressure up and continue to accelerate the bullet. You may get 15FPS out of an additional 2", but I wouldn't bet on it.

I expect you are exactly right with Varget or H4895. But once you are into the really heavy bullets, at some point H4350 starts to be a reasonable choice. Then that extra barrel length will buy more velocity.

For me, the longer barrel is not about more velocity - it's about the same velocity with lower pressure so the brass lasts longer and throat erosion is slower. H4350 will also contribute to those goals with the heaviest bullets.

 

[XTR]

I have shot up about 16 pounds of H4350 in 308s running 215s (and 200s) chambered with exceedingly long freebores. With WW brass it can work, really well/or not, depending on the lot of H4350. The stuff is quite variable lot to lot. At least in the 308 you need to be north of 48gr to get to competitive velocities even with fast lots. I've quit shooting it because with the lot I have now (16#+) I need 49.5gr to get to the same point. (take a fired case, pour in 49.5gr of H4350 and see how much room you have to seat a bullet. )

I test with a pressure trace system and a chrono, so I have a pretty good idea the differences.

When this bullet gets on the market I'll certainly test it with H4350, but my experience with shooting a whole lot of 90VLDs is that even seated long you are not far from case capacity with Varget, there isn't enough case left to make up the volume you need with H4350. I don't believe it will work based on past experiences.

If you look at some of my other posts you will see that I've done a lot of testing with powders in the range slower than Varget trying to find something ever so slightly faster than H4350 that will give velocity with our pressure with heavy bullets in a 308. The problem so far has always been that those powders that seem to fit the burn rate (pressure curve) are not dense enough to get enough in a 308/223 sized case. The one powder that as seemed to give the desired results is 2000MR, but it's temperature sensitivity causes all manner of issues trying to maintain the precision needed to win on an F class target.

This is definitely an interesting bullet. Now I'm hopeful that they will show some 200gr class love to the 308s.

 

[Berger.Fan222]

With WW brass it can work, really well/or not, depending on the lot of H4350. The stuff is quite variable lot to lot.

One thing I've done to reduce apparent lot to lot variations is to control the humidity in the reloading area and leave 1/2 pound of powder open on the bench for a few days before loading to allow the powder to come to equilibrium with the humidity in the room.

When one just opens a new, factory sealed powder container, it tends to have a water content that tends to be on the low side. This makes it appear faster because a given charge weight has more actual propellant and less water. The lower water content also makes it faster and hotter. Keeping the humidity in the room constant and allowing the powder to come to equilibrium before loading keeps the water content in a much tighter band.

In contrast, the more common approach of only opening a powder container when using it and not controlling humidity in the room produces much greater variations in burn rate, which are often misinterpreted as lot variations.

I started this approach years ago after I complained to Hodgdon about lot to lot variations. It pretty much emulates their lab procedure for ensuring the lot variations in their powder are within their specs. Since then, my need to rework loads with new powder lots has become much less frequent.

One trick for better H4350 performance in smaller cases is to use hotter primers. It is not a good candidate for the Palma brass in .308, because it prefers large primers. I've been playing with the numbers with a 95 grain bullet in .223. A magnum primer will probably allow getting enough powder in the case to make it worth a try if you seat the bullet long enough - COAL of 2.7-2.8 inches.

In .308, bullet weights don't really get heavy enough to show a preference for H4350 until 220-230 grains, and then it depends on the barrel, seating depth, and primer. If you've got Pressure Trace, you'll notice quicker ignition (shorter time to peak pressure) when you hit upon a combination that is working well - that is quicker ignition than combinations that are not working well with H4350, still longer time to peak pressure than H4895 or Varget.

 

[JBT47]

I have shot up about 16 pounds of H4350 in 308s running 215s (and 200s) chambered with exceedingly long freebores. With WW brass it can work, really well/or not, depending on the lot of H4350. The stuff is quite variable lot to lot. At least in the 308 you need to be north of 48gr to get to competitive velocities even with fast lots. I've quit shooting it because with the lot I have now (16#+) I need 49.5gr to get to the same point. (take a fired case, pour in 49.5gr of H4350 and see how much room you have to seat a bullet. )

I test with a pressure trace system and a chrono, so I have a pretty good idea the differences.

When this bullet gets on the market I'll certainly test it with H4350, but my experience with shooting a whole lot of 90VLDs is that even seated long you are not far from case capacity with Varget, there isn't enough case left to make up the volume you need with H4350. I don't believe it will work based on past experiences.

If you look at some of my other posts you will see that I've done a lot of testing with powders in the range slower than Varget trying to find something ever so slightly faster than H4350 that will give velocity with our pressure with heavy bullets in a 308. The problem so far has always been that those powders that seem to fit the burn rate (pressure curve) are not dense enough to get enough in a 308/223 sized case. The one powder that as seemed to give the desired results is 2000MR, but it's temperature sensitivity causes all manner of issues trying to maintain the precision needed to win on an F class target.

This is definitely an interesting bullet. Now I'm hopeful that they will show some 200gr class love to the 308s.

Have you tried Viht N550? Roughly the same burn rate as H4350 but more dense. Not sure if it would work...just a thought. It does produce excellent velocity in the chamberings that I’ve used it in.

 

[fredo]

Wonder if a monster capacity .224 would spin this bullet from a 1:9?
Sure, it'd go against most conventional wisdom on stability factors & calculators, but would be fun to try! Nothing ventured, nothing gained...

Imagine the ballistics of that bullet with a 35-3600 fps launch speed

When are these posta hit the shelves?

 

[XTR]

Have you tried Viht N550? Roughly the same burn rate as H4350 but more dense. Not sure if it would work...just a thought. It does produce excellent velocity in the chamberings that I’ve used it in.

N550 is double based, I tested it in 308s in competition a few yrs back. Probably fine in Britain but if you shoot where you get temp swings from 73 in the first relay and 93 in the last one it didn't work. The only times I've ever blown primers in competition were with 2000MR and N550.

 

[John from MN]

Patiently waiting to see what the real world speed limit will be with these. A b.c. of .6 is pretty dang close to a 6.5mm 140 grain VLD.

A 22 Creedmoor or 22-250 AI would do cool things with this bullet if they hold up.

 

[TikkaSporter]

No.. it would be the 6BRA lil sister!

Or the 'training BRA'

 

[JLT]

Or the 'training BRA'

Well done!

 

[Zero333]

Cartridge : .223 Rem.
Bullet : .224, 90, Berger VLD #22423
Useable Case Capaci: 25.096 grain H2O = 1.629 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.620 inch = 66.55 mm (0.222" of bearing surface in the neck)
Barrel Length : 30.0 inch = 762.0 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 60000 psi, or 413 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 107 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
% Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
--------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Alliant Reloder-17 107.0 26.0 1.68 2914 100.0 58417 6050 1.327 ! Near Maximum !
Elcho 17 107.0 26.0 1.68 2914 100.0 58417 6050 1.327 ! Near Maximum !
ReloadSwiss RS 60 107.0 26.0 1.68 2908 100.0 56859 6066 1.337 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H414 106.7 26.1 1.69 2881 97.7 60000 6081 1.331 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester 760 106.7 26.1 1.69 2881 97.7 60000 6081 1.331 ! Near Maximum !
SNPE Vectan SP 11 105.3 25.1 1.63 2867 99.9 60000 5723 1.334 ! Near Maximum !
ReloadSwiss RS 52 104.1 24.9 1.61 2867 100.0 60000 5679 1.335 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon CFE223 96.2 24.8 1.61 2863 100.0 60000 5648 1.335 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Big Game 101.9 25.1 1.63 2859 99.9 60000 5648 1.335 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4895 101.4 23.5 1.52 2854 100.0 60000 5667 1.347 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon BL-C2 96.7 24.4 1.58 2842 100.0 60000 5531 1.349 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 203B 102.7 23.8 1.54 2841 99.9 60000 5597 1.350 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-15 102.1 23.6 1.53 2841 99.8 60000 5631 1.350 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP11 ~approximation 102.1 23.6 1.53 2841 99.8 60000 5631 1.350 ! Near Maximum !
Raufoss RA11 102.1 23.6 1.53 2841 99.8 60000 5631 1.350 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP3 104.5 24.4 1.58 2840 100.0 60000 5514 1.357 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 203 old 104.5 24.4 1.58 2840 100.0 60000 5514 1.357 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester 748 94.1 23.4 1.52 2833 100.0 60000 5295 1.343 ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R903 106.8 24.4 1.58 2831 100.0 60000 5454 1.358 ! Near Maximum !
PB Clermont PCL 511 107.0 26.4 1.71 2829 97.8 55682 6054 1.368 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H380 103.3 24.4 1.58 2826 99.2 60000 5681 1.355 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N550 107.0 25.3 1.64 2824 99.1 55384 5952 1.381 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4895 98.4 22.8 1.47 2823 100.0 60000 5455 1.354 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Wild Boar 96.8 23.9 1.55 2823 99.9 60000 5507 1.349 ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S355 106.5 24.1 1.56 2822 100.0 60000 5470 1.358 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 3031 102.3 22.1 1.43 2819 100.0 60000 5012 1.348 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2206H 98.7 22.8 1.48 2819 99.9 60000 5485 1.355 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4320 104.0 23.7 1.53 2818 99.9 60000 5412 1.338 ! Near Maximum !
PB Clermont PCL 516 99.4 24.5 1.59 2813 99.2 60000 5604 1.350 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 4064 104.7 23.7 1.54 2813 100.0 60000 5139 1.380 ! Near Maximum !
SNPE Vectan SP 9 99.3 23.7 1.54 2812 99.9 60000 5447 1.351 ! Near Maximum !
ReloadSwiss RS 50 101.5 24.4 1.58 2811 99.3 60000 5542 1.354 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex D073.6 99.2 23.6 1.53 2808 100.0 60000 5135 1.364 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2520 96.9 23.6 1.53 2808 100.0 60000 5135 1.364 ! Near Maximum !
ReloadSwiss RS 62 107.0 25.9 1.68 2806 99.1 52291 5915 1.402
Elcho TR140 - preliminary data 102.8 24.5 1.59 2805 99.3 60000 5512 1.355 ! Near Maximum !
ReloadSwiss RS 70 107.0 26.4 1.71 2803 98.0 52201 6200 1.396
PB Clermont PCL 507 95.7 23.1 1.50 2803 100.0 60000 5283 1.354 ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S321 93.9 23.4 1.52 2802 100.0 60000 5306 1.360 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex S062 103.1 23.2 1.50 2795 100.0 60000 5228 1.364 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon VARGET 104.3 23.4 1.51 2793 99.7 60000 5421 1.351 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2208 104.0 23.4 1.51 2793 99.7 60000 5421 1.351 ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S341 97.5 24.3 1.57 2792 99.9 60000 5281 1.354 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N530 94.8 22.0 1.43 2792 100.0 60000 5214 1.356 ! Near Maximum !
SNPE Vectan SP 7 97.4 24.2 1.57 2790 99.1 60000 5446 1.364 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2495 98.6 22.3 1.45 2790 100.0 60000 4936 1.388 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP7 NT ~approximation 104.4 24.4 1.58 2789 97.7 60000 5537 1.343 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N540 101.6 23.8 1.54 2788 100.0 60000 5159 1.359 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot TAC 96.2 24.0 1.56 2787 98.8 60000 5520 1.359 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4064 105.2 23.0 1.49 2785 99.8 60000 5294 1.356 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H335 89.5 22.6 1.46 2784 100.0 60000 5043 1.357 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 201 99.8 22.6 1.46 2783 100.0 60000 5206 1.371 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 202 99.3 22.6 1.46 2782 100.0 60000 5028 1.362 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 8208 XBR 96.9 22.4 1.45 2782 100.0 60000 5150 1.357 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP3 NT ~approximation 106.6 24.5 1.59 2780 98.5 60000 5443 1.350 ! Near Maximum !
SNPE Vectan SP 10 89.1 22.0 1.43 2780 100.0 60000 5008 1.360 ! Near Maximum !
PB Clermont PCL 508 (PCL223) 89.1 22.1 1.43 2779 100.0 60000 5001 1.360 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4007 SSC 104.5 24.5 1.59 2778 96.9 60000 5589 1.364 ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R902 101.7 22.7 1.47 2773 100.0 60000 5131 1.373 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H322 94.9 21.3 1.38 2771 100.0 60000 4867 1.355 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2219 89.2 21.3 1.38 2771 100.0 60000 4867 1.355 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2460 92.4 23.0 1.49 2769 100.0 60000 5005 1.377 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex D073.5 92.7 23.0 1.49 2769 100.0 60000 5005 1.377 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant AR-Comp 97.2 21.8 1.41 2766 100.0 60000 4635 1.359 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP11 TZ ~approximation 96.7 21.8 1.41 2766 100.0 60000 4635 1.359 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot X-Terminator 93.8 23.2 1.50 2766 99.9 60000 5220 1.364 ! Near Maximum !
ReloadSwiss RS 40 91.2 21.5 1.39 2763 100.0 60000 4900 1.361 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2230 92.0 23.0 1.49 2762 100.0 60000 5067 1.371 ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R901 97.7 21.5 1.39 2757 100.0 60000 4919 1.384 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP7 107.0 24.3 1.57 2757 96.6 58343 5559 1.380 ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R907 107.0 24.3 1.57 2757 96.6 58343 5559 1.380 ! Near Maximum !
Nitrochemie A/S 0300 86.4 20.5 1.33 2756 100.0 60000 4686 1.364 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex D073.4 91.1 22.6 1.46 2755 100.0 60000 4926 1.375 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N140 101.4 23.0 1.49 2753 100.0 60000 4819 1.364 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP2 NT ~approximation 97.9 22.5 1.46 2752 100.0 60000 5072 1.361 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2210 90.0 21.5 1.39 2745 100.0 60000 4925 1.365 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 4350 107.0 24.8 1.60 2742 98.5 49421 5774 1.450
Lovex S060 98.5 22.2 1.44 2741 99.9 60000 5051 1.365 ! Near Maximum !
Norma URP 107.0 24.5 1.59 2740 98.4 49781 5763 1.436
Bofors RP19 ~approximation 107.0 24.5 1.59 2739 98.4 49734 5760 1.436
Alliant Reloder-12 94.6 22.3 1.45 2739 100.0 60000 4757 1.365 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon Benchmark 95.7 21.8 1.41 2736 100.0 60000 4893 1.367 ! Near Maximum !
ADI BM2 88.1 21.7 1.41 2736 100.0 60000 4881 1.367 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Hunter 107.0 25.6 1.66 2735 96.7 49643 5899 1.436
Lovex S065 107.0 24.2 1.57 2730 98.0 55155 5487 1.411 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2206 97.7 22.4 1.45 2730 100.0 60000 4972 1.366 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 204 107.0 25.6 1.66 2728 93.8 52761 5778 1.410
Accurate 2200 87.4 20.5 1.33 2727 100.0 60000 4755 1.366 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N135 107.0 22.4 1.45 2724 100.0 57455 4658 1.392 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-10x 92.3 20.1 1.30 2721 100.0 60000 4575 1.379 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2700 104.2 25.1 1.63 2717 96.4 60000 5213 1.377 ! Near Maximum !
SF033 fl, russ. 5,45x39 89.1 21.1 1.36 2715 100.0 60000 4446 1.386 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2015 94.9 21.0 1.36 2710 100.0 60000 4517 1.386 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex S070 107.0 24.5 1.59 2709 96.5 52348 5593 1.438
Somchem S335 99.0 22.4 1.45 2707 100.0 60000 4630 1.383 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 200 88.5 20.0 1.30 2697 100.0 60000 4442 1.396 ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S365 107.0 24.6 1.60 2694 99.8 44246 5654 1.493
Bofors RP4 NT ~approximation 107.0 25.1 1.63 2692 95.5 50186 5624 1.445
Bofors RP1 NT ~approximation 88.1 19.8 1.28 2689 100.0 60000 4473 1.366 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 1680 80.1 19.3 1.25 2685 100.0 60000 4433 1.373 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N133 100.8 21.3 1.38 2684 100.0 60000 4375 1.376 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4350 107.0 24.6 1.60 2684 95.3 51579 5470 1.433
Hodgdon H4198 88.7 19.3 1.25 2675 100.0 60000 4369 1.369 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N150 107.0 23.4 1.51 2673 100.0 51500 5051 1.445
IMR 4198 91.6 19.0 1.23 2670 100.0 60000 4243 1.371 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N130 95.0 20.5 1.33 2669 100.0 60000 4327 1.385 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex D060 78.6 17.0 1.10 2665 100.0 60000 4377 1.373 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 5744 76.8 17.0 1.10 2665 100.0 60000 4377 1.373 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-7 86.6 19.4 1.26 2663 100.0 60000 4291 1.389 ! Near Maximum !
Kazan Sunar 308W 90.5 20.5 1.33 2663 100.0 60000 4313 1.387 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2207 87.0 18.8 1.22 2655 100.0 60000 4223 1.391 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester 296 68.3 17.0 1.10 2644 100.0 60000 4190 1.398 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon Hybrid 100V 107.0 23.9 1.55 2639 99.1 45581 5280 1.491
Bofors RP4 ~approximation 107.0 24.8 1.60 2636 92.2 47112 5596 1.479
Raufoss RA4 107.0 24.8 1.60 2636 92.2 47112 5596 1.479
Hodgdon H4350 107.0 24.2 1.57 2634 94.4 48507 5384 1.470
Lovex D063 73.6 17.8 1.15 2630 100.0 60000 4121 1.378 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2209 107.0 24.6 1.60 2610 91.3 45257 5620 1.501
Hodgdon H4227 83.1 17.6 1.14 2608 100.0 60000 3982 1.389 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4227 82.7 17.5 1.13 2601 100.0 60000 3966 1.387 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N120 89.4 18.9 1.22 2601 100.0 60000 3923 1.403 ! Near Maximum !
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Reducing the COAL from 2.620" down to 2.300", looses up to 150 fps (depending on powder) and max charge weight is 1.5 to 2.5 grains less (again depending on powder type)

 

[flatlander]

I had an AR15 SR upper years ago that John Holliger did for me - PacNor 3-groove bbl in 1-6.5tw. It was an exceptionally fast & very accurate bbl, gave 2812fps with JLK 90VLDs using N550 - and no, I couldn't use that brass with the same load twice w/o blowing primers. Had a couple more of the PacNor 6.5tw 3-groove bbls after that first one, but never had another 6.5tw from anyone that would shoot as well as that first one did. No question whether N550 is temp sensitive - used to keep my 600yd ammo in an ice chest when OAT was over 70*F.

I've had a Bartlein .224 std Palma gaintwist (1-8 to 1-6.5)bbl in the shop for several years - perhaps it's time to chamber it up & give it a try with the new S95MKs when they become available? Thinking a 22BR or 22 Dasher would be my preferred chambering for bullets this heavy. Looking at the photo of the S95MK on Midway's site, it appears similar in shape to their recent 6mm 110MK.