Caution! Alliant's data for .40 S&W 180gr BE-86 is wrong!

[Lefty Trigger]

Made up some .40 S&W rounds using Alliants BE-86 powder and using their max charge of 7gr and reducing down 10% and 15% for some test rounds. I went to the range last night for testing and the 15% reduced load shot really HOT! The 10% reduced loads made my hands sting and the recoil was violent! I quit after a few of those and never tried anymore. I took apart my remaining loads to verify my charge weights and they were right on. After checking the load data against the Hornady book there is clearly a problem. I was loading copper plated 180gr bullets and Alliants data is 7gr max. The Hornady book gives a max at 6.3, reducing the Alliant data down 10% puts you at Hornady's max. Be careful!

 

[T-shooter]

If you have a chronograph, check the velocity. I only have one .040, a Taurus PT100 with a 5" barrel. I've never had anything close to stinging my hand even shooting the hot CorBon factory loads. Here are a few tests with my pistol and a friends. I have some 180g CorBon but have never chronographed them.

 

[Metal God]

Is this a "new" bottle of powder ? Did you buy second hand on the net or other way that you don't know for sure it's history ? I don't shoot or load 40 S&W or use that powder but sometimes a bad batch of powder does some funny things .

Just a thought , not saying that's the problem or the data is right . Just thought I'd throw it out there and see if it sticks .

 

[Lefty Trigger]

It's a new bottle but the issue is with the listed data not the powder. I made some more rounds using Hornady's data and all seems well. Checking back their (Alliants) data only seems questionable for the 180gr loads?? Sticking to my books.....

 

[Rsadams]

If your gut and especially your crono are saying there is a problem... Then don't do it.. Safety first no doubt....
Useing TAC in .223 my Hornady , Sierra and Speer manuals are way soft compared to TACs data online...
Start low and work up , I start in the middle and work up till I get what I want... The starting charges are normally so conservative there a waste to me.. but that's me , you do you...

Shawn..

 

[JRS]

The Alliant reloading data shows a charge weight of 6.3 grains for the 180 gr JHP with Federal 100 primer, 6.6 grains for the 180 gr FMC with Ferderal 100 primer, and 7 gr for the 180 gr Speer CPFN with CCI 500 primer.

If you are going to use book data, use the specified primer.

 

[jimcasey01]

I went to the Alliant site and they show no 180 gr bullet loaded over 6.6 gr that I could find.

 

[thekriebles]

I went to the Alliant site and they show no 180 gr bullet loaded over 6.6 gr that I could find.

All the way to 7.0 gr. depending on 180 gr. bullet and primer type:

http://www.alliantpowder.com/reload...wderlist.aspx&type=1&powderid=38&cartridge=29

 

[jimcasey01]

All the way to 7.0 gr. depending on 180 gr. bullet and primer type:

http://www.alliantpowder.com/reload...wderlist.aspx&type=1&powderid=38&cartridge=29

My error, I went to http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/RecipeList.aspx?gtypeid=1

 

[carlsbad]

A post like this can do more good than you might realize. If someone googles "load for 40 SW 180 BE-86" this thread will likely come up.

--Jerry

 

[243winxb]

Speer 180 info

Speer swaged lead core copper plated bullets are low in cost but substantially high in accuracy. These bullets are swaged with lead wire in an effort to ensure the tightest uniformity as well as prevention of premature wearing of barrels. Use lead bullet load data when loading these bullets as well as a slight taper crimp. A maximum velocity of 1,500 fps is recommended.

These bullets feature a lead core that is completely covered by copper plating. They are resized after being plated with approximately 0.004" of copper plating. This unique design makes them suitable for most indoor ranges, which often require the use of bullets with no exposed lead. The base is slightly concave to maximize the bullet to bore seal.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1...-180-grain-copper-plated-flat-nose-box-of-500

I was loading copper plated 180gr bullets

What brand were you loading?

Is the Hornady data with there bullet?

If not using the Speer bullet - Different component = Different pressure.

 

[Alliant Reloading]

Lefty Trigger,
I checked our data for this load, and it is correct. This 7.0gr charge is our max load for the Speer 180gr CPFN bullet, in a Federal case, with a CCI500 primer at 1.120" COAL. You did well to reduce before going right to that max, especially if you are using different components.
That Speer bullet is an inexpensive thinly plated bullet designed for plinking. If you are using a thicker plate bullet the pressure response will be different. If your bullets use a harder lead alloy the pressure response will be different. The Speer #4713 bullets are nominal 0.400", and I just measured a handful and came up with 0.4003". If your bullets are larger diameter the pressure response will be different. If you use different primers the pressure response will be different. If you use a different case the pressure response will be different.
In my opinion, BE-86(TM) and Power Pistol(R) are on the slow end for 40S&W with jacketed and plated FMC type bullets, and are better with high performance hollow points. We use faster propellants such as the Bullseye(R) T-shooter mentions for ball ammo at our factories. I load BE-86 behind a 180grJHP at 5.6gr at 1.120", and it works well for my purpose. I don't honestly know the velocity, but I would guess mid 900's, and it cycles my G35 flawlessly, throwing the cases 6-10ft. I had been using Bullseye and American Select(R) for plinking loads, but have changed exclusively to our new Sport Pistol(TM) for that application. The new powder is like a great charging version of American Select, and actually pretty much duplicates the ballistics of N320 and Win231. It is good stuff, so give that a try if you shoot pistol games.
Sorry about any misunderstanding Lefty, but we stand by our data for the load we documented.
Shoot well,
Paul

 

[Zero333]

In pistol cartridges the COAL makes a huge difference in pressure.

Length of the projectile matters a lot.

 

[M-61]

Great response from ALLIANT RELOADING!

I can not imagine what kind of proof reading is done on these manuals prior to publication but it has to be mind boggling.

 

[Lefty Trigger]

Well not trying to beat a dead horse here but the bullets I was using, while not Speed they are copper plated that's why I used that data (Rainier bullets measured at .400 to .4005). Also using mixed brass and CCI primers and a loaded length of 1.125. If that load data is correct that is some seriously hot powder. In all my years of reloading I have never come across a load that actually had me think twice about pulling the trigger and then not do it. There is a huge difference between the Hornady book and the web site and after trying the second batch with Hornady's data, those all shot well. So if Alliant's data is good maybe my pound is weird but I'll pass on the BE-86. I have several other bottles of Alliant's powder and never come across this before??

 

[Zero333]

You have to be careful when using RN bullets with FN data.

A Flat Nose bullet is much shorter in length than a Round Nose one, obviously.

So if you use a RN bullet with FN data and you seat it to the same COAL, the RN bullet will be MUCH LOWER INSIDE THE CASE, decreasing the boiler room and increasing pressure by A LOT.

 

[Rsadams]

Others may say this is a load of bull, but I learned long ago to use the data for the bullet your useing.. IE if I am useing a Hornady bullet I use the hornady manual etc. I loaded some Hornady bullets useing a different manual and they were very fast for what should have been a middle of the chart load..

So now I use the data as a starting point from the bullet makers manual only. I have seen 3 different manuals have 3 different starting loads.. One manuals starting load can be close to another manuals max load...For example in .308 150gr bullet the Speer manual has a starting charge of imr4064 of 43gr and in the hornady manual 43.3 is one step from max... The hornady max charge shows 44.9while the Speer manual shows a Max of 47gr.. That's alot of difference...

Also copper plated bullets like Berry's etc I load useing the data for lead bullets and it has never let me down.. platted is not the same as a normal FMJ... And while Berry's says you can use up to mid way in the charge list for a conventional FMJ I have found that to be to hot.. You can never have too many manuals or data but you should not start at the max load for anything to be safe..

Shawn

 

[jimmymac]

Made up some .40 S&W rounds using Alliants BE-86 powder and using their max charge of 7gr and reducing down 10% and 15% for some test rounds. I went to the range last night for testing and the 15% reduced load shot really HOT! The 10% reduced loads made my hands sting and the recoil was violent! I quit after a few of those and never tried anymore. I took apart my remaining loads to verify my charge weights and they were right on. After checking the load data against the Hornady book there is clearly a problem. I was loading copper plated 180gr bullets and Alliants data is 7gr max. The Hornady book gives a max at 6.3, reducing the Alliant data down 10% puts you at Hornady's max. Be careful!

That right there is the problem IMO. Anytime I'm loading and not using the exact components listed in the book, I always make sure I'm at a starting load.

The dead giveaway in this deal is that you ended up at Hornady book maximum based upon their data and you were okay with that. To me, that would have thrown up a big red flag to not do it. My rule of thumb when deviating components is to do the same as you and refer to more than one publication but don't start off any load if one book tells you it is at or near max. This goes back to reloading basics of being conservative, starting low and working up. Sometimes even experienced reloaders make critical mistakes. Good thing you stopped shooting.

 

[Lefty Trigger]

You have to be careful when using RN bullets with FN data.

A Flat Nose bullet is much shorter in length than a Round Nose one, obviously.

So if you use a RN bullet with FN data and you seat it to the same COAL, the RN bullet will be MUCH LOWER INSIDE THE CASE, decreasing the boiler room and increasing pressure by A LOT.

Sorry should have said what they were,... hollow points.

 

[Catfur]

Every bullet design is a beast unto itself. I have this problem at the opposite end of the power curve. I switched from a lead 115gr RN from Rim Rock in my 9mm(s) to a polycoated Acme bullet (both RN bullets), and stupidly didn't re-work the load from scratch. A load that fed fine and fired fine in all my 9mm pistols will only feed in some of my SIGs and will not cycle them correctly (too soft).