Has anyone had a problem with case head separations with the lapua palma 308 brass? I have 5 reloads on them and I've had 4 case head separations out of 52 rounds. I am going to have to trash the brass. I just find this odd after only 5 reloads. I use a Redding type s fl sizing die, I lube every case individually before sizing. I bump the shoulders back about 4 thousands. I am not running them really hard. 43.4 gr of varget behind a 20x. I was trying to find the lapua rep for the U.S. to try and send an email to also. If anyone has a contact please let me know thanks.
Lapua 308 palma brass
- Thread starter whiter02
- Start date
Then you’ll need to segregate cases between rifles. When I was clambering barrels I usually got headspace within 0.001 barrel to barrel.
Then you are sizing your brass (bump) for a barrel it is not going to be fired in....if I read this correctly. IMO .004 is a lot and probably not needed.
And I don't know which rifle you have nor it's purpose. (target, hunting) It does not matter what the brass measures after being fired in ANOTHER rifle.
Also the same reamer being used is not what will determine the headspace.
My suggestion? Stop subjecting the brass to a .004 stretch each time it is fired. If the bolt closes on the cartridge normally the need to 'bump' eludes me. Try not bumping on a case that has been successfully fired in this rifle and see if it chambers properly. There may come a time that you may have to bump the shoulder after a number of firings.
The above is my opinion based on the belief that I like to 'work' my brass as little as possible. . I'm sure others have different views.
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Which the OP is creating. (maybe.....stop the bumping and see what you get)
And contrary to what has been said here 1,000's of times you CAN move the shoulder BACK without collapsing the case by bumping the shoulder. And in doing so the headspace increases. In your case maybe .004" and the brass goes back and forth each time it is reloaded and fired. Do it enough times and you get the head to separate as you see with your brass. (5X in your brass)
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For those that understand what you are talking about I ask: Does that mean the case has too much head space? Or does that mean the case does not have enough head space? OR! Does that mean the chamber is too long for the case from the shoulder of the chamber to the bolt face?
I off set the length of the chamber with the length of the case, my cases do not have head space.
If that is what is happening and if everyone understood what the other was saying this question would not be a reoccurring question on reloading forums. If it was compression the case head should be increasing in diameter. I always ask; Who measures? SO? if the case head is not increasing in diameter there is no compression, then there is that other thing with the firing pins and the race to the front of the chamber.
F. Guffey
I've tried 308 and 6.5 Creedmoor Lapua brass at heavy loads. About 35 firings and they start to show an impending failure at the case head. I set the shoulder back .002 max.
There is a variance when setting back the shoulder. I've got my full length sizing process down where it varies about .001, with .002 being the very max. I've never had a neck failure with lapua, always a case head separation. It's a slow process over 5 or 6 firings. You can see it on the outside and feel it on the inside. When the brass folds over in the sizing die and produces a line on the outside of the case that I can feel with my finger nail, I cull the case. I've never had one separate in the chamber.
I believe Lapua case heads are very hard, and maybe they need to be that hard to make them the very precision cases that they are. There is no doubt that the very hard case head cost Lapua cases some life. I won't stop using them. Lapua cases make it easier to shoot small groups.
In addition the $1.00 a case used 35 times is only .03 cents a shot making it a tenth of the cost of the bullet that ended up in the backstop.
Best of luck making them work! Brant
There is a variance when setting back the shoulder. I've got my full length sizing process down where it varies about .001, with .002 being the very max. I've never had a neck failure with lapua, always a case head separation. It's a slow process over 5 or 6 firings. You can see it on the outside and feel it on the inside. When the brass folds over in the sizing die and produces a line on the outside of the case that I can feel with my finger nail, I cull the case. I've never had one separate in the chamber.
I believe Lapua case heads are very hard, and maybe they need to be that hard to make them the very precision cases that they are. There is no doubt that the very hard case head cost Lapua cases some life. I won't stop using them. Lapua cases make it easier to shoot small groups.
In addition the $1.00 a case used 35 times is only .03 cents a shot making it a tenth of the cost of the bullet that ended up in the backstop.
Best of luck making them work! Brant
Since you asked and you don't think bumping a case shoulder is possible why don't you BUMP the chamber. Take your non-cam over press and give it a try. Shorten the chamber to fit the brass.(might be called headspacing by some) Sort of like getting your feet trimmed to fit a pair of boots.
No wonder the OP doesn't get back
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The go gauge is 1.630" ( Measure from base to datum .400")
The No Go Gauge is 1.636"
Given the A rifle headspace was 1.635" * Most of factory rifle will have bigger headspace *
the proper ammo headspace should be 1.633" ( Bump .002" from fired brass)
Given the B rifle headspace was 1.6300" * Most of custom rifle will keep minimum headspace *
the proper ammo headspace should be 1.628" ( Bump .002" from fired brass)
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Let say if you goona use the brass which fired from A rifle in B rifle, you have to bump from 1.635" to 1.628" (Bump around .007" from fired brass)
This is the reason that you should keep rifle brass in each rifle. Then you only bump .002" from fired brass
But if rifle was rebarrel which gunsmith can control proper headspace, the you can mix those brass together due to experience gunsmith can keep in .0005 vary between 2 rifles.
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You can not get pass 'the case does not have head space', I have no problem accepting and agreeing with SAAMI. Proper head space should be? The minimum length of a case from the datum to the case head is not .002" shorter than a go-gage when measured from the datum to the case head.
Many years ago I suggested reloaders that had an interest in checking dies and shell holders for accuracy purchases a head space gage and learn to verify it. After verifying the gage I suggested they strip their sizing die and then drop the go-gage into the die. If they could managed that and were able to measure protrusion/height above they could determine the difference between the chamber and die. Problem: none of them understood the shell holder deck height was .125" meaning when checking the height of the gage above the sizing die it was necessary to add .125" "OR" use the shell holder and a feeler gage to determine the length of a minimum length/full length sized case.
The 30/06 die with a shell holder and head space gage should have a gap of .005" between the bottom of the die and top of the shell holder. If the go-gage and die is being checked with a head space gage the head space gage should protrude from the die .130".
And then there is the case, there are times the case has more resistance to sizing than the die, lube and press can overcome, I suggested the reloader measure the gap between the bottom of the die and top of the shell holder. If the reloader understood the gap would be .005" on a full length sized case and the gap is .011" it should not take the reloader long to determine the press has flexed because the case offers more resistance to sizing than the press can overcome. Back then the solution was to grind the bottom of the die and or top of the shell holder. Some purchased Skip's Shims etc.
F. Guffey
jepp2
Gold $$ Contributor
Before I just randomly threw them out, I would give them the bent paperclip check for incipient case head separation. Even if you find them all bad, it helps with identifying the cause.
The corrective actions I have decided to take is to get new brass and only bump my shoulder .001 max if any. I understand and agree with the advice i have been given with the excesive shoulder bump. I have thousands of other pieces of brass that I have reloaded, some over 10 firings that I have used .002 shoulder bump on with no problems at all. This brass was .002 shoulder bump for 4 firings through the original rifle with one case head separation, then fired through the new rifle for one firing and had 3 more case head separations out of 52 rounds and several others showing marks in the brass. A fired piece of brass from the new rifle measures .002 longer at the shoulder than a fired piece of brass from the old rifle. I just still find that odd that there has been so many case head failures, but I will take the advice given and hope I don't run into anymore problems. Thanks.
That is the fashionable thing to do; bump the shoulder back, I would suggest you measure before and again after. Measure What? Measure the length of the case from the datum to the case head before firing and again after firing then measure the length of the case after sizing from the datum to the case head. And then someone should ask about you method and or technique for adjusting the die.
F. Guffey
Fire your new brass 3 times or until they become stiff to chamber then measure and bump accordingly and bump the shoulder from then on after every firing.
Cheers Trev.
Fire the case once and then measure, after measuring neck size and fire, after firing measure again, after firing the second time neck size the case, load and then fire again. After firing for the third time measure the length of the case from the shoulder/datum to the case head mad compare with the first two measurements.
One variation of that story claims it is necessary to start over by full length sizing after firing the case 5 times and I wonder: How is it possible to start over with a case that has been fired 5 times? And I always wonder why reloaders can never figure a way to measure the length of the chamber from the shoulder/datum to the bolt face without firing the case. I think nothing of it but I can measure the length of the chamber from the shoulder to the bolt face three different ways without a head space gage.
And then there is the chamber cast; and then there is the three-in-one gage. I offered to modify a few gages for a builder/resource person/collector, he was not interested because the gage would no longer be period correct.
F. Guffey
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