Polished brass??

[NorCalMikie]

Got my full length die in 17 VHA back from Redding. No Charge for them to remove the stuck case. I had fully expected to pay for them to fix the problem but their Customer Service came thru again. They even replaced the decapping rod assembly. Even enclosed (at no additional charge) a small tin of Imperial Sizing Wax (that must have been a hint)

along with instructions on how to size your brass. Figured it better to ship it off to Redding, have them remove the stuck case than me go after that little case with a drill and take the chance of scoring the die body. I have removed stuck cases before but this one was just a little too small for me to take a chance on.

I did see one thing in the instructions that I had NEVER heard of or considered.??
First off, I prefer "polished" brass. They usually come out of the tumbler BEFORE they get resized. If they're "clean", they may go straight to the resize operation.
Most of my brass never hits the ground. All my rigs are single shot or set up with single shot followers and the ejector rods are removed so I have to pick the brass off the bolt head and don't end up chasing brass.

The resizing instructions mentions something about "The film of tarnish or oxidation on the surface of the brass in effect acts as a lube. Without the oxide, the case tends to stick". ??? And they mentioned, "Brightly polished brass cases will lend them selves to stuck cases and brass transfer to the dies and do not polish your cases BEFORE resizing". I'll have to change my ways. You CAN teach an Old Dog new tricks!

That doesn't mean I'll be throwing my "Polished" brass in the dirt or I'll be turning into Pig-Pen anytime soon but I'll be a little more aware when it comes to the proper amount of lube and how clean my brass is.
I have learned a bunch today, just when I thought I already knew everything.

 

[USMCDOC]

Only thing that i clean up before sizing is the necks.. then after the sizing process i will clean them all up..

 

[jepp2]

"The film of tarnish or oxidation on the surface of the brass in effect acts as a lube. Without the oxide, the case tends to stick". ??? And they mentioned, "Brightly polished brass cases will lend them selves to stuck cases and brass transfer to the dies and do not polish your cases BEFORE resizing".

I am certainly not disagreeing with their instructions. However I do wet SS tumble my brass prior to sizing. My take on it is with highly polished brass, the quantity and quality of your lube becomes more important. I use 1:12 ratio of liquid lanolin and red Heet, and my brass sizes with very little effort.

I would guess most of the returned dies they get with brass stuck in them is more a result of inadequate lube rather than how polished the brass was. But I'm sure they get tired of performing this service for free over and over and over.

 

[NorCalMikie]

I have stuck a few cases over the years but it's usually when I'am on a roll. Do four or five in a row and there's seems to be enough lube in the die to do "just one more case" before I need to lube again. I usually catch it just in time as I feel the case getting snug. And all my brass is polished so it is more of a lube problem than the finish of the case.

 

[Webster]

Got my full length die in 17 VHA back from Redding. No Charge for them to remove the stuck case. I had fully expected to pay for them to fix the problem but their Customer Service came thru again. They even replaced the decapping rod assembly. Even enclosed (at no additional charge) a small tin of Imperial Sizing Wax (that must have been a hint)

along with instructions on how to size your brass. Figured it better to ship it off to Redding, have them remove the stuck case than me go after that little case with a drill and take the chance of scoring the die body. I have removed stuck cases before but this one was just a little too small for me to take a chance on.

I did see one thing in the instructions that I had NEVER heard of or considered.??
First off, I prefer "polished" brass. They usually come out of the tumbler BEFORE they get resized. If they're "clean", they may go straight to the resize operation.
Most of my brass never hits the ground. All my rigs are single shot or set up with single shot followers and the ejector rods are removed so I have to pick the brass off the bolt head and don't end up chasing brass.

The resizing instructions mentions something about "The film of tarnish or oxidation on the surface of the brass in effect acts as a lube. Without the oxide, the case tends to stick". ??? And they mentioned, "Brightly polished brass cases will lend them selves to stuck cases and brass transfer to the dies and do not polish your cases BEFORE resizing". I'll have to change my ways. You CAN teach an Old Dog new tricks!

That doesn't mean I'll be throwing my "Polished" brass in the dirt or I'll be turning into Pig-Pen anytime soon but I'll be a little more aware when it comes to the proper amount of lube and how clean my brass is.
I have learned a bunch today, just when I thought I already knew everything.

The cases should never stick in the die if they are properly lubed, clean or tarnished.

 

[fguffey]

I'll have to change my ways. You CAN teach an Old Dog new tricks

I took a new rifle to the range, it shot like a shotgun, it did not shoot groups, it shot patterns. I called a very disciplined reloader, he suggested there was something I did not know about reloading so he suggested I stop by his shop to findf something the rifle liked. We did not have time to tumble, not a problem I make spinners, we spun/cleaned 20 cases is less time than it took to separate media from the cases. We loaded 20 once fired cases with 4 different loads.

Because We were only a mile from the range I went back and started over, some results. No groups, just patterns. I contacted Winchester to inform them there Model 70 300 Win Mag had the ugliest chamber I have ever seen. They decided they would hone, polish and or ream the chamber etc. That was 16+ years ago, I asked Winchester for Winchester dies that would fit my chamber or a chamber that matches my dies.

Spinning cases: I do not want anything between my case and chamber but air, I do not want a lot of air. After spinning the cases have a glass finish, the glass finish gives me a case that has 100% contact between the chamber and case.

And then there are the worst of cases, spinning is an option, I have started cleaning 1,400 cases that were the very worst, I started cleaning those cases with vinegar for a maximum of 15 minutes.

F. Guffey

 

[dmoran]

....... I do not want anything between my case and chamber but air .......

 

[NorCalMikie]

The cases should never stick in the die if they are properly lubed, clean or tarnished.

Famous last works.

 

[jds holler]

I have been told (and believe) that oxidation and tarnish is actually a surface protectant for the underlying metal. This fits perfectly with my lazy attitude about case polishing.

I now have more affirmation that my grungy looking cases are superior to the beautiful polished cases of my more anal brethern. jd

 

[Zero333]

My brass doesn't get filthy dirty so I resize before tumbling in walnut/corncob.
Never had a problem.

This way I don't have to worry about the sizing lube since it goes into the tumbler after sizing.

Another thing I noticed is the sizing lube helps the tumbling media clean the brass.

 

[Iowa Fox]

I gave up polishing cases years ago simply because I was always short on time. I de prime and wash in hot water and dish soap, sometimes a little Lemi Shine in the water. Shake them out and set aside to dry. After a while I decided I was having better luck than wasting my time trying to polish cases. They were clean and no grit in them. Tumbling always seems to leave dust, grit, or a stray piece of something here and there which you can prove if you roll them around on a big sheet of white paper after you think they are clean. Almost 50 years ago when I got out of the army and went to work I remember the old guys teaching me the job telling me "the easy way is always tough enough". They were certainly correct.

One other thing I have noticed and maybe its just my imagination, on the new Redding dies I buy and over the years it a bunch. I always take them a part and clean and lube well. For the first 50 plus cases using my most slippery wax applied with my fingers the cases pull hard in and out, you can actually hear them going in and out of the die. Then all of the sudden they start going in like a hot wire cutting butter at the butter factory. Its on all the dies, body, type s bushing, or just the regular old run of the mill 2 die sets. My take on it is the wax fills and pores in the finish and burnishes the surface.

I honestly don't care about the appearance of my cases. All I want is for those projectiles to fly into the same hole when I pull the trigger.

 

[jds holler]

ALSO -- there have been discussions around here lately where many agree that the carbon in the necks of "unclean" cases is of some value in providing consistant bullet release.

This also fits well into my beliefs that un-tumbled cases are just fine. jd

 

[ASbobcat]

ALSO -- there have been discussions around here lately where many agree that the carbon in the necks of "unclean" cases is of some value in providing consistant bullet release.

This also fits well into my beliefs that un-tumbled cases are just fine. jd

I stopped tumbling my brass a long time ago after discovering the "rolled over lip" effect (very well described on "Varmint Al's" site) that eventually resulted in copper being scraped from bullet jackets. I was initially concerned that residue on the inside of the uncleaned cases would build over time, but it hasn't. I just brush the necks thoroughly.
There are two kinds of brass tarnish. One is due to natural oxidation and has the effect described by Redding. The other is due to high temperatures applied during annealing. This oxidation is highly abrasive and will scratch dies. The effect is especially hard on TiN bushings. I sometimes forget to burnish this oxide off with 0000 steel wool, and immediately thereafter have to polish the gaulling out of the bushings.
Back to the "stuck case" issue, if you follow Redding's recommendation to clean the inside if dies after use, it's important to re-lube by applying a little extra on the first few cases .

 

[NorCalMikie]

Folks that use the SS Pins to clean their brass run into problems when the cases get "too clean". The carbon in the necks is gone and you have seating issues. So, you end up starting all over from scratch.

 

[Brians356]

There are two main classes of brass cases: 1. Cases for loading and shooting, 2. Jewelry.
-

 

[NorCalMikie]

When the clean, tumbled or polished cases come out of whatever you use to clean,tumble or polish them, do you bother to look at the primer pockets or flash holes to see if there's any media stuck in the holes? You get out the pick, clear the flash holes and inspect the brass for defects. That's the time I usually do the chamfer thing to the case mouths. Don't have to worry if they got dented or the "rolled over lip" from being tumbled. Just one more time to get another GOOD LOOK at your brass.

 

[ASbobcat]

When the clean, tumbled or polished cases come out of whatever you use to clean,tumble or polish them, do you bother to look at the primer pockets or flash holes to see if there's any media stuck in the holes? You get out the pick, clear the flash holes and inspect the brass for defects. That's the time I usually do the chamfer thing to the case mouths. Don't have to worry if they got dented or the "rolled over lip" from being tumbled. Just one more time to get another GOOD LOOK at your brass.

There is a second result of tumbling, also well described by Varmint Al, that chamfering will not resolve. Work hardening also occurs, depending on the length of time tumbled. From my experience it can be so severe as to require excess seating pressure to overcome greater neck tension, regardless if neck diameter. I experienced blown primers, ruined brass and missing extractors before discovering that this was the cause. The only solution is to anneal after tumbling, and in some cases (so to speak) this effect is so severe that it cannot be undone.

 

[fguffey]

My brass doesn't get filthy dirty

I purchased 600 + rounds of metal linked 30/06 rounds in Yonkers, NY, I purchased 1,400 once fired cases that had 30+ years of patina on them, the cases were affordable because no one wanted to clean them. I paid $14.00 for the 1,400 cases. I could have spent two months tumbling or I could soak the cases in vinegar for 15 minutes, I choose the vinegar, the one thing I could not do is leave any trace of the vinegar on the cases so I rinsed them twice in boiling water. After boiling I tumbled them for an hour.

Again, I left the range, I spun 20 cases, we loaded the spun cases and then returned to the range. There is no way this stuff can lock me up or drive me to the curb.

In the older days I could have cleaned the dirty cases faster by 13 minutes, not a problem for me but the cases would have turned black after rinsing.


F. Guffey

 

[M-61]

There is no way this stuff can lock me up or drive me to the curb.

Lost me.

 

[USMCDOC]

Lost me.

I would show you the sign, but i don't which direction to point!