Down South
FTR Junkie
That's a call I can't make for you. If it were me I'd run the test again with both loads at distance and see what looks best.
200-20x how fast
- Thread starter avidflyer
- Start date
That's a call I can't make for you. If it were me I'd run the test again with both loads at distance and see what looks best.
try both loads at a match. Shoot 43 in one relay and 44 in the other. Hold dead center and see which does better
If your using Large rifle primer brass go with 43 unless you like buying brass every 3 shots.
avidflyer
Gold $$ Contributor
43 of varget will be really slow... (depending on lot) 44 was only 2650 or so with my lot
Ned Ludd
Silver $$ Contributor
2730 fps with the 200.20X is a very hot load. Be careful what you're doing with H4895...typical loads tend to run about grain (or even more) less than with Varget.
avidflyer
Gold $$ Contributor
agree thats what I use 1 grn less
So I have identified two areas my rifle seems to shoot. 42.4 to 42.7 that is 2665 to 2680. Then it jumps impact up higher and 43.0 and 43.3 are together. That's 2700 to 2715. Both verified by group testing and ladder test. So think I'm sticking with 43 to 43.3. ES in single digits and groups around 1.5" at 484 yards over several test sessions. My chamber is throated out long. Using H4895
I like to shoot a string exactly the same way I would at a match and take the SD from that.
I'm running 44.8gr of Varget at that same speed.
I reload my 200.20X's to 43.4gr of Varget (10/1000 off lands) in Standard Lapua Brass w/ CCI BR2 Primers in a 168 throat in a 30" barrel and get approximately 2650 f/s velocity. That load consistently yields 1/4 to 3/8 MOA groups at 100 yards. I use this bullet/load for my 600yd FTR event shooting and am very happy with the results!
Have you had a chance to try this load in a match yet? Results?
Tried it yesterday. 585 15x. I tried 3 seating depths. Very little wind but was having "flyers" and unexplained shots. My barrel might be going out too so looking into that.
Thanks for the report. My life sees plenty of flyers and unexplained shots. I hope you get it figured out. Please keep us informed of progress.
My buddies and I are seeing a lot of struggling with recoil management with 200 + grain bullets and F-TR setups. Do you think recoil management might be an issue? How heavy is your rifle? Do you have a good "ski style" bipod and set-up? We'd love to shoot a heavy bullet at 1000 yards, but we're also having struggles at shorter ranges.
No recoil issue. Load testing looked good. At 484 yds looked good. Around 1.25" groups with that or less vertical. At 600 yards just seemed off. Like I said barrel was little tougher to tune this go around. Never has been that way over 3000 rds until now
Ned Ludd
Silver $$ Contributor
The score you mentioned above was loading to the higher node (2700-2715 fps), correct? In my testing, I never quite got up that fast with H4895, maybe mid 2690s was as high as I went. It might be worth looking into. I've been using 42.8 gr, which gives me about 2650-2660 fps at .009" off the lands (~3.117" COAL). The load seems to perform pretty well, but I haven't yet shot it in what I would call benign wind conditions. For that reason, it's hard to say how well I would do with it in relative calm as a "high water mark". I have noticed that it definitely requires more attention to recoil management than my 185 loads. I've noticed my scores with that load aren't as good as I normally expect with 185s or my .223s with 90 VLDs, and the X-counts are noticeably lower. However, I'm still not sure how much of that is the load, recoil management, or the fact that I've only been using it in challenging wind conditions. Likely, it's some combination of the three.
We look for recoil management issues a couple of ways:
1. Significantly better groups/scores from a benchrest on a bench than in a proper F-TR set-up from the ground.
2. Significantly better groups/scores in the hands of a more experienced/proven shooter of higher recoiling loads.
3. The problem goes away when adding weight substantially above the normal configured F-TR weight in simulated matches.
Simulated matches have proven very useful for buddies and I in diagnosing all manner of issues. The electronic targets at Talladega are set up perfectly for it, and it's not hard to shoot 10 simulated matches in one day. 20 shots for "record" in a simulated match tells you a lot more than five shot groups, you can have the LabRadar running to rule out velocity for high and low hits, and you can take pictures of the screen showing all the shot locations. Subtle issues like recoil management take more care to diagnose, gotta work hard to eliminate the other possibilities.
1. Significantly better groups/scores from a benchrest on a bench than in a proper F-TR set-up from the ground.
2. Significantly better groups/scores in the hands of a more experienced/proven shooter of higher recoiling loads.
3. The problem goes away when adding weight substantially above the normal configured F-TR weight in simulated matches.
Simulated matches have proven very useful for buddies and I in diagnosing all manner of issues. The electronic targets at Talladega are set up perfectly for it, and it's not hard to shoot 10 simulated matches in one day. 20 shots for "record" in a simulated match tells you a lot more than five shot groups, you can have the LabRadar running to rule out velocity for high and low hits, and you can take pictures of the screen showing all the shot locations. Subtle issues like recoil management take more care to diagnose, gotta work hard to eliminate the other possibilities.
I've never shot a clean at 600 with my 308 but have been averaging about 40% clean relays with my 223 over the last year. The load in the 308 is just as good or better than the 223 load. I keep getting 1-3 crazy ass shots out of 20 that I can only attest to recoil. Thinking about putting a 6mm barrel on my 308.
Joe R
Gold $$ Contributor
I too have shot clean at 600 yards a couple of times with my 260 but never with 308. So, I have been pondering this conundrum.
We all have a tendency to focus on wind resistance when choosing our bullets simply because that's where the numbers point us to. But, as my Dad used to say, "Not all things that count can be counted". Your statement makes a case for less recoil resulting in greater precision.
I suspect that the thing we're failing to consider during our selection of bullets is torque. Torque (the hidden aspect of recoil) may play a bigger role than we suspect. That would explain why Jade is having better results with an 11 twist than with a 10 twist, in spite of the numbers indicating that a 10 twist should be preferred. Just saying...
Joe
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