Borescope revelations

[rayjay]

Around here, on a day like this, all you have to do is step outside with a firearm and it is immediately coated completely with condensation.

Hate to stay off range all summer, but perhaps that's what I need to do.

My shop/garage has no heat or ac and I learned this lesson way back when I first got my lathe. I took a rifle from the 74 degree house out to the 90 degree shop and instant coating of condensation. I'm pretty anal about moisture on my guns so I was pretty upset by it. Total disassembly, dry and oil. I normally go to the range very early in the morning so the outside temp and house temp are about the same. When I come home I leave the guns in the garage until the next morning. For the target rifles I do a thorough cleaning and oiling at the range before loading up the truck. Pistols just get an oily patch down the bore and a wipe down.

The oily wipe down goes for CM or SS.

I wonder what the maximum temp differential is that is safe to carry a gun from the house to the garage and not get condensation ??????

 

[hogpatrol]

One option for rust prevention is keeping your firearm wiped down with a silicon rag. Rusters are religious about doing this.

 

[Someoldguy]

My shop/garage has no heat or ac and I learned this lesson way back when I first got my lathe. I took a rifle from the 74 degree house out to the 90 degree shop and instant coating of condensation. I'm pretty anal about moisture on my guns so I was pretty upset by it. Total disassembly, dry and oil. I normally go to the range very early in the morning so the outside temp and house temp are about the same. When I come home I leave the guns in the garage until the next morning. For the target rifles I do a thorough cleaning and oiling at the range before loading up the truck. Pistols just get an oily patch down the bore and a wipe down.

The oily wipe down goes for CM or SS.

I wonder what the maximum temp differential is that is safe to carry a gun from the house to the garage and not get condensation ??????

Good question. It was 86º @ 4AM today. I didn't check the humidity, but the dew was so heavy, it looked like it rained. And that's not unusual. Perhaps keeping watch of the humidity is the key . . . . ?

 

[Alex Wheeler]

I agree with what has been stated above, I'm not going to worry about a good shooting barrel no matter what I *think* is wrong with it. Poor shooting barrels is what I'd like to find the cause for.

Around here, on a day like this, all you have to do is step outside with a firearm and it is immediately coated completely with condensation.

Hate to stay off range all summer, but perhaps that's what I need to do.

But, is the general consensus that these 2 barrels would likely not shoot well even without the light corrosion damage?

In my opinion the best thing you can do with a poor barrel is trash it as soon as possible. By 100 rounds you will know if it is gonna shoot. I have been down that road, and seen many others go there also. Most times a good manufacturer will stand behind it and the smith may even give you a break on the chambering. I hear of guys at 400-500 rounds and still fighting. How much $$ does 500 rounds cost? Plus range time and fuel? Cheaper and less aggravating to re-barrel.

 

[Someoldguy]

In my opinion the best thing you can do with a poor barrel is trash it as soon as possible. By 100 rounds you will know if it is gonna shoot. I have been down that road, and seen many others go there also. Most times a good manufacturer will stand behind it and the smith may even give you a break on the chambering. I hear of guys at 400-500 rounds and still fighting. How much $$ does 500 rounds cost? Plus range time and fuel? Cheaper and less aggravating to re-barrel.

I'll remember this, to be sure. Thank you for the benefit of your experience. I appreciate it.

 

[savagedasher]

A bore scope is a gun smith best friend .
I have seen barrels that looked like they were cut with a hatchet and they shot great and have seen some that look perfect that didn't The target is the real answer. Larry

 

[Someoldguy]

A bore scope is a gun smith best friend .
I have seen barrels that looked like they were cut with a hatchet and they shot great and have seen some that look perfect that didn't The target is the real answer. Larry

I understand. The results on the target were unsatisfactory, as I stated in the OP. I would not go looking for a cause if there was not a problem.

 

[savagedasher]

I understand. The results on the target were unsatisfactory, as I stated in the OP. I would not go looking for a cause if there was not a problem.

Then junk the barrel . Looking at it won't help. I know you know how to clean a barrel without a bore scope . Larry

 

[spaniel]

I recently did wish I had a borescope. Buddy had a factory 308 that shot OK a year ago. Last winter we did some load development, it generally shot better but toward the end there were a couple unexplained flyers. Recently we tried to continue with load development, pressure seemed surprisingly high with the same loads and we couldn't hit anything. We finally realized the 110 Vmax were usually exploding before getting to 100, and one that did reach the backer went through sideways. I loaded up some 155s and indeed they keyholed as well.

The barrel is toast, but darned if I could figure out why. He cleaned the heck out of it with everything available and it still keyholed. Looking down the barrel by eye you can't see anything wrong. We pulled the barrel and screwed on a spare 243 I had (Savage) to get him shooting again.

I really would like to scope that barrel just to know what happened. The only clue I have is that he stored it in a soft case for quite some time, so I figure it has corrosion.

 

[Someoldguy]

I recently did wish I had a borescope. Buddy had a factory 308 that shot OK a year ago. Last winter we did some load development, it generally shot better but toward the end there were a couple unexplained flyers. Recently we tried to continue with load development, pressure seemed surprisingly high with the same loads and we couldn't hit anything. We finally realized the 110 Vmax were usually exploding before getting to 100, and one that did reach the backer went through sideways. I loaded up some 155s and indeed they keyholed as well.

The barrel is toast, but darned if I could figure out why. He cleaned the heck out of it with everything available and it still keyholed. Looking down the barrel by eye you can't see anything wrong. We pulled the barrel and screwed on a spare 243 I had (Savage) to get him shooting again.

I really would like to scope that barrel just to know what happened. The only clue I have is that he stored it in a soft case for quite some time, so I figure it has corrosion.

Thank you for the post! As you have stated, it would be nice to know what changed, but soft cases get a lot of blame. Is it deserved?

Good question. Facts, apart from speculation, is what is needed.

 

[rayjay]

When I first got my lathe I bought a $40 iirc PTG 22LR Match Reamer and some $69 Anschutz bbl blanks [ numrich ] to get practice doing the threading, chambering, OD turning, etc. Little did I know !!!!!!!!!!!!! Rimfires are the hardest to do a proper chamber for if you want the thing to shoot BR quality scores !! My bbls would shoot pretty good but throw really wild flyers that didn't have an explanation from the windflags. I did all the reading and studying I could and then bought the Hawkeye. With one look at my chamber I saw issues. Figured out a low tech way to address them. Never looked back. Flyers disappeared.

The Anschutz bbls will never shoot good enough to win a BR match with serious entrants but the next bbl I did was a Hart and it was right there. Just lacking a World Championship level lot of Eley. The Annie bbls did win class regularly at a long range bench silhouette club match that has the rams at 188m/205yds. It shot [ shoots ] awesome just not the awesome you need for todays 50yd RFBR.

I have rehabilitated 6 or 8 high end bbls done by recognizable name gunsmiths that sent the bbls out the door with the same leade problems my chambers had before the borescope . It's pretty satisfying to test a bbl and find it lacking in performance and look with the borescope and see leade issues. Then fix it as verified by the borescope and then have the bbl shoot instantly competitive scores.

 

[Ggmac]

Amen to 22 lr and leade -accuracy issues . Thank god I've always had a Borescope of some kind , it wasn't till gradient lens developed the design we use today which lowered cost a significant amount to what the German , Swedish ones use to cost, that I could afford my own . Prior to the Hawkeye I shared a company's very expensive one . Now with the Lyman , it should be in every owners arsenal of tools and cleaning equipment . There is just no reason to waste time and expense on a barrel that stops shooting .
Again it's only a tool not a magical one .

 

[spclark]

I wonder what the maximum temp differential is that is safe to carry a gun from the house to the garage and not get condensation ??????

It's not the temperature difference, it's the dew point that's significant.

Water vapor will condense on any surface at or below that for the temperature of the surface. Where relative humidity is low it's not as important as any tendency for condensation to form will be far lower due to a dramatically lower dew point than where humidity is 40% or above.

A protective coating on any important bare metal parts is a worthwhile practice to maintain a barrier to moisture until those parts can be moved to an environment where the humidity is controlled.

 

[rayjay]

Amen to 22 lr and leade -accuracy issues . .

The same issues are there on CF chambers it's just the combination of jacketed bullets and 50,000 psi of flaming violence are very forgiving. I do the same treatment to my CF leade as I do my RF.

 

[joshb]

I bought a Lyman borescope last spring. It's still in the shipping box. I tell myself I just got too busy with other things. To be completely honest, I'm a little afraid to look.

 

[Ggmac]

I bought a Lyman borescope last spring. It's still in the shipping box. I tell myself I just got too busy with other things. To be completely honest, I'm a little afraid to look.

Josh , only use it as a tool on rifles that don't shoot . That way any observations will only help figure out the 'why' .
Hope your summer is being enjoyed !

 

[hogpatrol]

I bought a Lyman borescope last spring. It's still in the shipping box. I tell myself I just got too busy with other things. To be completely honest, I'm a little afraid to look.

Borescopes, Recommended by more barrel makers and gunsmiths, than any other tool.

 

[Rustystud]

Barrel examination and testing can give you a much better understanding about your barrels performance. Visual inspection requires you know what your looking for. Physical inspection (Slugging) can tell you about bore diameter( tight/loose spots), land groove ratio, and aborations in twist. Barrel maker knowledge, abilities, and use of good steel properly stress relieved are key. There are very high quality barrel makers and there are those who just turn out the minimum quality. Using a good process with finish lapping makes a big difference.

 

[L.Sherm]

Nat, you just mentioned a process that I forgot to in my previous post, STRESS RELIEVING screw up just one and you have a mediocre barrel at best.

 

[joshb]

Josh , only use it as a tool on rifles that don't shoot . That way any observations will only help figure out the 'why' .
Hope your summer is being enjoyed !

Hi Gary! I hope you're well, also. Send some more pics. I love to see your "progress"! I really got it to check my cleaning methods. Copper fouling and that darn carbon ring. I finally have a bunch of custom barrels mounted. I want to look at "new" Brux, Lederer and Krieger, then watch them over time.