Oh I have the rite Larry lol.
http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/range-sound-management.3893585/
Apologies to the OP lol good luck in your search.
Hearing protection Help
- Thread starter David247
- Start date
Oh I have the rite Larry lol.
http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/range-sound-management.3893585/
Apologies to the OP lol good luck in your search.
I also said horses don't rate high on my list and I recomed foam ear plugs .
I recomeded to use hay bails to make a tunnel . But the serious part was over looked . lol Larry
Over the years I have used various types of ear protection. I have not been completely satisfied with any of them. The GSP 15 is probably very good but $299 is not "a little more". They are costly and I do get that they perform a vital task. I'll probably end up with a pair eventually. Hell I've tried everything else.
The very best thing that the shooting community can do to protect from hearing loss is embrace the use of suppressors. For too long the NRA and most of the shooting disciplines have sided with the government in reference to suppressors. The PRS and Long Range community have been the only groups to allow suppressors.
In my opinion the best protection one can have is a suppressor and I believe everyone should have at least one.
Last week I was at the range testing some loads in my 6.5CM and the only other people there were a very old man and his grandson. They were shooting some old military guns and having a time about 6 benches away. I shot a group with the muzzle cap, then another with the muzzle brake and the third with my suppressor. I heard the old feller say "that's more like it". Then they came over and we talked for a while. I offered to let them shoot it but they declined but said they really liked the can.
NBRSA AND IBS need to wake up and start supporting suppressors. What's the matter afraid of a little competition?
Joe
The very best thing that the shooting community can do to protect from hearing loss is embrace the use of suppressors. For too long the NRA and most of the shooting disciplines have sided with the government in reference to suppressors. The PRS and Long Range community have been the only groups to allow suppressors.
In my opinion the best protection one can have is a suppressor and I believe everyone should have at least one.
Last week I was at the range testing some loads in my 6.5CM and the only other people there were a very old man and his grandson. They were shooting some old military guns and having a time about 6 benches away. I shot a group with the muzzle cap, then another with the muzzle brake and the third with my suppressor. I heard the old feller say "that's more like it". Then they came over and we talked for a while. I offered to let them shoot it but they declined but said they really liked the can.
NBRSA AND IBS need to wake up and start supporting suppressors. What's the matter afraid of a little competition?
Joe
That is why foam plugs are the better choice. Once inserted correctly, they don't move/back out. Molded plugs/hearing aids will lose their seal by coughing, sneezing, jaw movement, weight loss, etc. In the industry in which I worked, molded plugs were not approved by the safety department, and frowned upon. Those wearing them were required to sign a waiver.
I'm not taking a general position on this. If molded plugs work well for someone, that's great by me. I use them when shooting pistol. Just saying that when I get down in a prone position, something gives and an air gap develops between the plug and my ear canal. In this particular case foam plugs work better for me.
DRNewcomb,
Great comment about position problems with ear plugs.
Our ear canals are divided into two different canals. The outer 1/2 of the canal is called the cartilaginous region and the inner 1/2 is called the bony region. Yah! I know you have already figured out what that means, but the result is that if a ear plug or electronic plug only extends 1/2 way into the canal, it is only in the part whose walls are thin skin over cartilage and the cartilage isn't rigid enough to allow a good seal. Once in the bony region, you are sealing effectively to the mastoid bone and then you will find the best seal and sound level reduction.
This is why simply inserting plugs slightly into the canal does little or no good.
With yellow foamies, roll them up slowly between thumb and index finger till it is a small rod, then insert it quickly before it can expand again and hold it in the ear with your little finger as far as you can. Now you should have a good seal and shooting prone should not make a difference. Same goes for any plug, electronic or plain, that has a foam tip. Same thing with those tips with 3 or so ridges like mushrooms stacked on top of each other. These silicon tips must be lubricated ( lick 'em, and don't say you haven't had your tongue in someones ear!) and insert carefully. It also helps to take your arm on the opposite side of your head from the ear you are inserting the plug and grab the top of your ear with thumb and two fingers and pull it up and back. This tends to align the cartilaginous region with the bony region helping the plug go in easier and farther.
Great comment about position problems with ear plugs.
Our ear canals are divided into two different canals. The outer 1/2 of the canal is called the cartilaginous region and the inner 1/2 is called the bony region. Yah! I know you have already figured out what that means, but the result is that if a ear plug or electronic plug only extends 1/2 way into the canal, it is only in the part whose walls are thin skin over cartilage and the cartilage isn't rigid enough to allow a good seal. Once in the bony region, you are sealing effectively to the mastoid bone and then you will find the best seal and sound level reduction.
This is why simply inserting plugs slightly into the canal does little or no good.
With yellow foamies, roll them up slowly between thumb and index finger till it is a small rod, then insert it quickly before it can expand again and hold it in the ear with your little finger as far as you can. Now you should have a good seal and shooting prone should not make a difference. Same goes for any plug, electronic or plain, that has a foam tip. Same thing with those tips with 3 or so ridges like mushrooms stacked on top of each other. These silicon tips must be lubricated ( lick 'em, and don't say you haven't had your tongue in someones ear!) and insert carefully. It also helps to take your arm on the opposite side of your head from the ear you are inserting the plug and grab the top of your ear with thumb and two fingers and pull it up and back. This tends to align the cartilaginous region with the bony region helping the plug go in easier and farther.
RustyMetal
Engineer'gDesignr
I think SavageDasher is usually joking around, and is sometimes hard to distinguish between the two.
OP, what I said about me using both muffs and plugs really are very effective. But like someone mentioned, there will be a time where someone is saying something to you that you want to hear. And for me, I have to pull the ear muffs off and plugs out. Then when they are finished, put it all back in. -- It's a cheap solution that is more important to me, and I just go to the extra trouble and do what I gotta do when someone is talking to me.
OP, what I said about me using both muffs and plugs really are very effective. But like someone mentioned, there will be a time where someone is saying something to you that you want to hear. And for me, I have to pull the ear muffs off and plugs out. Then when they are finished, put it all back in. -- It's a cheap solution that is more important to me, and I just go to the extra trouble and do what I gotta do when someone is talking to me.
My hearing is so bad I wear both foam plugs but I wear ampfied hearing ears . Range commands If I take the ears off I can't hear . Sure crests problems at the range .
Remember only you can prevent hearing loss . Don't go cheap the best you can buy may not be good enough . Larry
Remember only you can prevent hearing loss . Don't go cheap the best you can buy may not be good enough . Larry
I used to have molded ones years ago when I was shooting trap a lot. They were good for several years but ended up no longer fitting.
I like the idea of trying the GSP 15's with a good pair of electonic ones over them but I am a little concerned the GDP 15's will eventually not fit also. I really don't care that much how expensive protection would be, I just don't want anymore damage if I can avoid it.
This rifle that I am having built will have a break with it. I have only been around a few, but those darn things are loud. I guess I really should invest in a suppressor too. That won't help when I am next to some else who doesn't have one through. Good hearing protection first, then a suppressor sounds like the way to go. Thx again
I like the idea of trying the GSP 15's with a good pair of electonic ones over them but I am a little concerned the GDP 15's will eventually not fit also. I really don't care that much how expensive protection would be, I just don't want anymore damage if I can avoid it.
This rifle that I am having built will have a break with it. I have only been around a few, but those darn things are loud. I guess I really should invest in a suppressor too. That won't help when I am next to some else who doesn't have one through. Good hearing protection first, then a suppressor sounds like the way to go. Thx again
rjtfroggy
Gold $$ Contributor
I don't understand what all the debate is about. You are all willing to spend a couple of thousand for your rifle, then add another 2k for a scope, then up to $300 for a case to carry it all in but when it comes to saving your hearing you only want to spend pennies on foam plugs.
Your hearing never heals invest some of that money on the best you can buy- electronic plugs even if it means something else in your arsenal must be a little less expensive.
And yes I do have the LE 15"s step up from GS 15's but same price $299.
Your hearing never heals invest some of that money on the best you can buy- electronic plugs even if it means something else in your arsenal must be a little less expensive.
And yes I do have the LE 15"s step up from GS 15's but same price $299.
Get the GSP-15! Money well spent
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00J5P8OGS/?tag=accuratescom-20
I've been wearing aides for 3 years now and was advised by my audiologists the GSP-15s were the best in market for our sport. They are all you need for outdoor competitions or outdoor shooting. Double up anytime you shoot at indoor ranges or covered benches as the sound is amplified. Double up also whenever shooting a brake. It only takes 1 shot from a brake with no protection to give permanent hearing loss. I have loss NO additional hearing since going to the GSP-15 and always doubling up when indoors for the last 3 years (as proven by my annual hearing test) Someone said early in this thread the foam inserts included with the GSP offer the best protection and I concur 100%. You can order replacements from Amazon for $17 for a pack of 8.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B009OWP866/?tag=accuratescom-20
Do not take your hearing lightly. I would pay 100 times what I have in my Etymotics GSP-15 to get what hearing I lost back!!
Norm,
What do you think of the preformance of these electronic muffs offered on Amazon? They have excellent reviews but they are pricey.
MSA Sordin Supreme Pro X - Premium Edition - Electronic Earmuff with black leather band, black cups and gel seals fitted
28 customer reviews
| 9 answered questions
Price: $275.00 Free Shipping for Prime Members
Sold by ACE-Instruments and Fulfilled by Amazon.
If just throwing money at the problem was the solution there probably would not be so much discussion. I don't mean that in a snarky way, but everyone is built a little differently and we all may have different expediences or tried different products. Personally, I like to hear all of the different point of views. I will say though, that at this point I do like the idea of electronic plugs under electronic muffs so you get protection and still have somewhat of a chance to hear whats going on around you.
That being said and since I am the OP, I would now like to ask all of you what is your opinion on the best electronic muffs? I know some have already commented on them but I would like to hear (no pun but it is a little funny) more on them. Thanks and have a nice weekend
rjtfroggy
Gold $$ Contributor
David I can't comment on what muffs are the best because I just don't know.
What I can say is that the two pairs I have are no better than the plugs I mentioned, they work the same way they just don't interfere with setting down on the stock and getting a good solid cheek weld. I can hear everything around me, they cut off the muzzle blast and no other devices needed.
What I can say is that the two pairs I have are no better than the plugs I mentioned, they work the same way they just don't interfere with setting down on the stock and getting a good solid cheek weld. I can hear everything around me, they cut off the muzzle blast and no other devices needed.
I can't use muffs shooting a rifle. Use them with my pistol. The eletronic ones are nice.
I use the surefire. They work great for me. The mediums fit well.
http://www.surefire.com/ep3-sonic-defenders.html
If someone plops down next to me with a brake i ask to be moved. Even with total ear protection the muzzle blast destroys my concentration. If they can't move me i leave.
I use the surefire. They work great for me. The mediums fit well.
http://www.surefire.com/ep3-sonic-defenders.html
If someone plops down next to me with a brake i ask to be moved. Even with total ear protection the muzzle blast destroys my concentration. If they can't move me i leave.
I don't even know if I will use the break that he puts on my gun. It's a 6 Creedmoor and I am used to shooting 308, 30-06, 300 and 358. I can't see recoil being that bad on that little laser anyway.
Benperfected,
I'm not really impressed with these especially concerning the price! They may be a high quality system, but if you look carefully, the NRR is only 16 dB! That is rally poor and they claim only the high 20's for "best case". The compression to 82dB means the audio amp clips at 82 dB SPL. in comparison, the GSB-15 clips at 117 dB SPL. I don't know anything about the muff's amplifier, but the GSP-15 clips symmetrically and coupled with the high level, the ear isn't sensitive to distortion there. If you do your maths, when a large rifle fires, it produces an impulse of ~170 dB SPL. 170 minus 117 equals a 53 dB drop. This exceeds the old mastoid bone attenuation of a little over 40 dB so you actually hear more through your mastoid bone than thru the amplifier. And, same with the muffs which may actually cover the mastoid bone. However the 16 dB NRR tells me there is great difficulty sealing to the skull for most folks so the potential is never reached.
I'll keep on using my GSP-15 with the better of the tips and insert them carefully!
Norm
I'm not really impressed with these especially concerning the price! They may be a high quality system, but if you look carefully, the NRR is only 16 dB! That is rally poor and they claim only the high 20's for "best case". The compression to 82dB means the audio amp clips at 82 dB SPL. in comparison, the GSB-15 clips at 117 dB SPL. I don't know anything about the muff's amplifier, but the GSP-15 clips symmetrically and coupled with the high level, the ear isn't sensitive to distortion there. If you do your maths, when a large rifle fires, it produces an impulse of ~170 dB SPL. 170 minus 117 equals a 53 dB drop. This exceeds the old mastoid bone attenuation of a little over 40 dB so you actually hear more through your mastoid bone than thru the amplifier. And, same with the muffs which may actually cover the mastoid bone. However the 16 dB NRR tells me there is great difficulty sealing to the skull for most folks so the potential is never reached.
I'll keep on using my GSP-15 with the better of the tips and insert them carefully!
Norm
BoydAllen
Gold $$ Contributor
I did a little bit of research and could only find a mention of a NRR of 25 is there a link that you can post that indicates more than that?
BoydAllen
Gold $$ Contributor
None of what I have read here, or anything that I know explains how well these work.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000FEW4GE/?tag=accuratescom-20
The most eerie quiet that I have experienced while shooting came from deeply inserted 33 NRR foam plugs, these added, properly "installed". All that the rifle sounded like was a sort of ping...very different. I did not buy them because I needed something better, but rather as an experiment. The results were interesting to say the least.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000FEW4GE/?tag=accuratescom-20
The most eerie quiet that I have experienced while shooting came from deeply inserted 33 NRR foam plugs, these added, properly "installed". All that the rifle sounded like was a sort of ping...very different. I did not buy them because I needed something better, but rather as an experiment. The results were interesting to say the least.
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