Hearing protection Help

[dcali]

Norm,
What do you think of the preformance of these electronic muffs offered on Amazon? They have excellent reviews but they are pricey.

MSA Sordin Supreme Pro X - Premium Edition - Electronic Earmuff with black leather band, black cups and gel seals fitted
28 customer reviews
| 9 answered questions


Price: $275.00 Free Shipping for Prime Members

Sold by ACE-Instruments and Fulfilled by Amazon.

I have some of these. They are not enough by themselves. The cost is due to the mechanical quality. They are very well made and very comfortable to wear for long periods of time. If you look at the details of their attenuation, you'll see they're ok for higher frequency noise, but fall short in the lower frequencies. But that is typical of small volume muffs as far as I can find (I dug through some publicly available research materials, and it seems pretty constant, which isn't surprising given, well, physics).

The real answer here I'm afraid is that you have to double up given the practicalities of poor fit and shifting muffs, ears, glasses, etc. And you're better off not shooting the big boomers too much without suppressors. There's some military research out there on the web that basically says that it is impossible to protect the artillery guys. They will suffer hearing damage over time due to the sound traveling straight through the bone.

 

[bdale]

None of what I have read here, or anything that I know explains how well these work.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000FEW4GE/?tag=accuratescom-20
The most eerie quiet that I have experienced while shooting came from deeply inserted 33 NRR foam plugs, these added, properly "installed". All that the rifle sounded like was a sort of ping...very different. I did not buy them because I needed something better, but rather as an experiment. The results were interesting to say the least.

^^^^+++++++

 

[BoydAllen]

None of what I have read here, or anything that I know explains how well these work.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000FEW4GE/?tag=accuratescom-20
The most eerie quiet that I have experienced while shooting came from deeply inserted 33 NRR foam plugs, these added, properly "installed". All that the rifle sounded like was a sort of ping...very different. I did not buy them because I needed something better, but rather as an experiment. The results were interesting to say the least.

Posted the wrong link. I have the 31 dB model, this one:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001IMHSP4/?tag=accuratescom-20

 

[Toejoe12]

Posted the wrong link. I have the 31 dB model, this one:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001IMHSP4/?tag=accuratescom-20

I do not have any more info through a link to share, just the facts I've already shared through my experience and 3 years of hearing tests. Please do NOT take this as an endorsement of any product but just my opinion based on my experiences. I will share a few more facts (as just that) take them as you will. I am 53 years old and do not have significant hearing loss but none the less due to my occupation ( I direct a fairly large sales team that covers both the US and Canada). I was having difficulty understanding conversation on certain sales calls with my employees depending on the size of board room or conference room we were presenting. This prompted me to get my hearing checked 3 years ago. I learned then I had enough loss of high pitch sounds as well as tinnitus to understand all speech. I paid $7,700 for the two aides I wear now as it was a means to how I make a living. It was also speculated my hearing loss was from shooting. My love of this sport (F-Class) has created many life friends I give a lot of credibility to what they tell me as I trust their integrity. One of which happens to be a Dr, and also teaches aspiring Dr to be, at the University of KY and a good bit younger than I. I will not give his name here as I have not asked permission. In an unsolicited conversation 2 years ago on this subject ( that started based on us both wearing the same GSP-15 hearing protection) he shared with me he gave several hearing protection device product details to a hearing Dr friend,(eye, ear, nose, and throat) not an audiologists, to review and give him a recommendation. She recommended the Etyomics GSP- 15 for what we do for several of the same reasons already mentioned in this thread, mostly by Normmatzen. I was already wearing them with the results already described. The feedback I received in that conversation was very similar to the ones I've already given in my earlier post. Yearly exams no hearing loss! He still has all his hearing but also doubles up on indoor ranges and the scenarios I've already discribed. One other simple test I was told a few years back on over the ear protection. Take your choice of over the ear hearing protection and cut your grass while chewing gum aggressively and wearing safety glasses. Then take the glasses off and spit out the gum, do you hear a difference? I did....as the seal was broken due to jaw movement and the glasses frames holding the ear protection off the temples. This simulates talking on the line or in the pits, thus the importance of doubling up if you do not wear any in the ear protection. I will end with saying once again take this as my opinion based on my experiences nothing more! Hopefully this helps someone make a decision!!!!

 

[BoydAllen]

I have not had an issue with my foam plugs' seals breaking. I did figure out that the one on my left ear was not sealing at a depth that I felt confident about being able to remove with close trimmed fingernails. That is why I came up with a way to remove them when seated deeper and a better way to compress them so that I could get them in deeper. Once I had that problem solved, the seal sounded the same for both ears. As I mentioned I generally use double coverage. Public ranges come with magnums that have muzzle brakes and short barreled rifles and loud pistols. long barreled target rifles that are not allowed brakes are not as loud. For my money, it is about performance. 33 is significantly more than 25. I also trust what I am or am not hearing, and that is why I brought up the SensGard protection. Looking at them they shouldn't work as well as they do. If I were having to deal with hard to hear range commands I would probably get the thinnest electronic muffs that I could find and double cover with them over the plugs. Actually the SensGard protection allows me to hear speech pretty well, even though they work well for gunfire, sort of a passive electronic device. They mention that, but not in the same words in their literature. I have some custom molded plugs, they are not as comfortable to me as other setups, for long term wear. I found that the remark about interference between glasses temples and muff bands to be difficult to understand. Mine do not do that. The seal of my muffs is not effected by my wearing glasses (metal frames, slim temples).

 

[RustyMetal]

Norm,
What do you think of the preformance of these electronic muffs offered on Amazon? They have excellent reviews but they are pricey.

...

Price: $275.00 Free Shipping for Prime Members

Wow! I have $15 ones that will work about 95% as well as those outrageously priced ones.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00NKSMPZW/?tag=accuratescom-20
Do you want to pay ~$260 more for that extra 5% ???

 

[savagedasher]

If just throwing money at the problem was the solution there probably would not be so much discussion. I don't mean that in a snarky way, but everyone is built a little differently and we all may have different expediences or tried different products. Personally, I like to hear all of the different point of views. I will say though, that at this point I do like the idea of electronic plugs under electronic muffs so you get protection and still have somewhat of a chance to hear whats going on around you.

That being said and since I am the OP, I would now like to ask all of you what is your opinion on the best electronic muffs? I know some have already commented on them but I would like to hear (no pun but it is a little funny) more on them. Thanks and have a nice weekend

Wow! I have $15 ones that will work about 95% as well as those outrageously priced ones.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00NKSMPZW/?tag=accuratescom-20
Do you want to pay $250 more for that extra 5% ???

Would i pay that much To get 5% of my hearing back? The answer is yes.
Larry

 

[DRNewcomb]

Once upon a time, I read that sound reduction for ear plugs and muffs was only defined for continuous tones (e.g. train whistle, milling machine), not for impulsive sounds (e.g. trip hammer, gunshot, etc.). Does anyone know if this is still (or ever was) actually the case?

 

[Toejoe12]

I have not had an issue with my foam plugs' seals breaking. I did figure out that the one on my left ear was not sealing at a depth that I felt confident about being able to remove with close trimmed fingernails. That is why I came up with a way to remove them when seated deeper and a better way to compress them so that I could get them in deeper. Once I had that problem solved, the seal sounded the same for both ears. As I mentioned I generally use double coverage. Public ranges come with magnums that have muzzle brakes and short barreled rifles and loud pistols. long barreled target rifles that are not allowed brakes are not as loud. For my money, it is about performance. 33 is significantly more than 25. I also trust what I am or am not hearing, and that is why I brought up the SensGard protection. Looking at them they shouldn't work as well as they do. If I were having to deal with hard to hear range commands I would probably get the thinnest electronic muffs that I could find and double cover with them over the plugs. Actually the SensGard protection allows me to hear speech pretty well, even though they work well for gunfire, sort of a passive electronic device. They mention that, but not in the same words in their literature. I have some custom molded plugs, they are not as comfortable to me as other setups, for long term wear. I found that the remark about interference between glasses temples and muff bands to be difficult to understand. Mine do not do that. The seal of my muffs is not effected by my wearing glasses (metal frames, slim temples).

Good info and good conversation. I'm glad the foam plugs work for you. Let me add I agree they are the best as well as the most economic when used appropriately. I have a bucket of them in my reloading room I occasionally restock my range back with as I give them away to those that "forgot" their protection. They do not work for me only because I can not understand conversation or communicate effectively with them in my ears even with electronic muffs over top. I am also a co-match director for F-class competitions at my club range. I assist and call the line so the match director can also shoot the matches. I have to be able to understand conversation. More importantly to me I am a social person and want to understand conversation so I can enjoy myself at the range doing what I love. I have 2 sets of custom molded ear plugs.......love them and wear them if I'm at the range alone. The GSP-15s simply work for me and my needs and I will buy another set if the ones I have now stop working. The 33 to 25 difference makes absolutely no difference to me for reasons described in my previous posts. I know the 25 when worn appropriately and with over the ear protection in certain environments works and I have not lost anymore hearing in the 3 years I've been wearing them as proven by my annual tests. Sounds like from your post you also pay close attention to the environment you're shooting and double up as well where appropriate, difference being the foam inserts (with alterations for your left ear) work for you. I also enjoy a good hunt. The 15 in GSP-15 represents the enhanced hearing mode (small switch on the side) noise levels are amplified by 15db. I can hear leaves shuffle and sounds we often listen for while hunting that I had lost that ability due to my hearing loss and still have protection when I pull the trigger. Lastly I will say they may not be comfortable for some as many hearing protection devices can be very uncomfortable. My ears are accustomed to hearing aides so I barely notice I'm wearing them. I do not take them out when the line is cold or during pit changes during matches and I can enjoy the social aspect of that part in matches with them in. Like many other things in our sport this comes down to experience and personal preferences with some research conducted by those that care enough. I don't post a lot here as I simply don't have much free time with my travel, family, and hobbies, but I will occasionally chime in on things I know "a little" about and really care about. I care about my hearing! Wish I knew 10 years ago what I know now!

 

[BoydAllen]

It sounds to me like your choice of hearing protection makes eminent good sense considering your needs. You write well, and that is relatively rare. Have a good one.
Boyd

 

[RustyMetal]

Would i pay that much To get 5% of my hearing back? The answer is yes.
Larry

Or maybe just use a simple pair of foam ear plugs along with it like I described at first?

 

[savagedasher]

Or maybe just use a simple pair of foam ear plugs along with it like I described at first?

Use what ever you want my hearing is gone . Larry

 

[normmatzen]

Boyd,
Good question. The GSP-15 is rated by the OSHA rules at an NRR that starts with the best case noise reduction. Then, the manufacturer must determine the worse case protection with various improper fittings. The NRR is based both on clinical testing and statistics. That is, if the manufacturer is honest!
I believe Etymotic will tell you the best case attenuation ( it is 38 dB) but do not like to quote that as folks will think all they have to do is stick them in there ears for that level of protection. Not the case! They still must selected the best tip based on an individual's ear canal fit and use proper insertion.
Of all the muffs I have researched (not all as there are a BUNCH of them!) specify right around an NRR of about 16 dB, and a maximum attenuation of usually around 26 dB. The Big,Expensive muffs can get way up in the 30's, but they still will not fit everyone's skull properly or will not be placed correctly. And, shooters in general don't like the big ones as they get in the way!

 

[JRS]

OSHA, is a complete joke.

 

[normmatzen]

DRNewcomb,
Yes, all the specifications we have been discussing are steady state sounds, not impulse sound.
First, it is WAY easier to measure steady state sound levels as well as being cheaper to purchase the equipment!
Second, it really doesn't make any difference. Certainly, we are being exposed to impulse sounds of upwards of 160-170 dB SPL. However, we are talking sound volume not sound energy. Sound energy is what causes damage to our hearing.

A 170 dB SPL impulse may be essentially off the map as to volume, but the energy, reduced by hearing protection, may not be so high. Really high level impulse can physically damage the three little bones coupling the ear drum to the cochlea, but we are on the whole getting good protection if we use protection that gets up close to 40 dB SPL such as well inserted yellow foamies or GSP-15 properly inserted with best fitting tips or even a pair of muffs with ER-20 or better ear plugs. Just remember, anything over 40 dB reduction is washed out by the mastoid bone transferring sound with slightly more than 40 dB attenuation.
Maybe you can't have too much protection, but anything over 40 dB is unnecessary.