I have a 8"twist 22/250 I had some 53gr V-Maxs laying around from previous bbl (12" twist) I was working up loads for MT Prairie Dogs.( Most of my ammo will be 77gr Sierra TMK ) So 38.5grs of H380 I shot 4 rounds of this load at 125 yards . 1 of them went through the target side ways,but only 1 ? Worked up to 39.5grs of H380 and I was getting about 1/2 MOA, screaming fast 3950 average out of Brux 26" bbl. So why didn't other bullets go sideways ?
1 out of 18 bullet went through target sideways ?
- Thread starter Ironworker
- Start date
centershot
Silver $$ Contributor
I had this with a .223 Savage barrel 9 twist. I sent it back to Savage and they said try heavier bullets. I think that it should have stabilized 55 grain. I wound up selling it and put on a Shilen pre-chambered. It was very frustrating!
Ledd Slinger
Silver $$ Contributor
Agree with Matt.
If you shoot enough, you'll find a few bad bullets over the years. They either get damaged or there's a blemish from the production line that got past QC.
If the jacket fails bad enough, you'll usually hear a 'whizzing' sound as it travels through the air.
Theres no issue with stabilization if that's what you were concerned with. If you were having issues stabilizing a bullet, you wouldn't be shooting 1/2" groups. Tho 3950 fps with a 1 in 8" twist may be on the ragged edge of the bullet jacket ablitity to maintain integrity. That's some SERIOUS rpm going on there. My calculation comes out to 355,550 rpm. Those jackets are getting a little warm going down the bore
If you shoot enough, you'll find a few bad bullets over the years. They either get damaged or there's a blemish from the production line that got past QC.
If the jacket fails bad enough, you'll usually hear a 'whizzing' sound as it travels through the air.
Theres no issue with stabilization if that's what you were concerned with. If you were having issues stabilizing a bullet, you wouldn't be shooting 1/2" groups. Tho 3950 fps with a 1 in 8" twist may be on the ragged edge of the bullet jacket ablitity to maintain integrity. That's some SERIOUS rpm going on there. My calculation comes out to 355,550 rpm. Those jackets are getting a little warm going down the bore
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I had shinny ejector pressure signs at 39grs of H380 Hornady brass. I wonder if I should just shoot them in my AR and stick with heavy long bullets ? I only have 40 of them,am I hurting my custom bbl ? I like seeing those Prairie dogs desentagrate
Ledd Slinger
Silver $$ Contributor
Pushing pressures and speeds to the max will always shorten the life of any barrel. Tho 40 more rounds shouldn't noticeably wear the barrel lands down much unless you shoot all 40 in a row.
That speed is definitely better suited for a 1 in 12" twist in my personal opinion. Nothing wrong with shooting 53gr bullets in a 1 in 8" twist, but I would advise you slow them down in the range of 3750-3850 fps if you want to make sure you don't get another jacket failure. The prairie dogs will still fly apart at those speeds.
The chance of a jacket failure also becomes much higher when you are sitting out in the hot sun shooting prairie dogs all day. The hotter that barrel gets, the more likely you are to have a bullet fly apart if your are pushing the ragged edge of pressure and speed. It's happened to me before in a 204 Ruger. I no longer push my rifles to their limit.
I had a load set up for one of my competition pistols. In working up the load, I hit a sweet spot and had exceptional groups. I loaded 300 rounds of the ammo. Prior to a match I had put 50 rounds thru the chamber and ensured my sight setting were right on. On the day of the match I put 5 sighter shots dead center on the targets. First set, 5 of 5 shots, dead center on the target. Second set I shot and the first target did not move. Next 4, dead center. I had the match director check the target to see if there was a hole in it. Nope. Next set, 5 of 5, dead center. Moved to second relay position. Two shots in and both center hits. Next two, nothing on the target. Switched ammo quickly and cleaned the rest of the targets without a miss. Later that afternoon we took the ammo out and about every third shot missed the target. The temperature outside bumped my load over the threshold. We believe the jackets were separating due to the fast twist, but were never able to confirm. I quit using that bullet in that load due to the narrow margin I had in stabilization. The remaining loads were eventually used in matches on cooler days.
Outside temperature, barrel temperature, action temperature and length of time ammo is locked in battery all play a role in ignition speed, pressure speed, and acceleration of the bullet. A load right on the edge of stability, could see that occasional flier or unstabilized bullet. A bullet with short bearing surface may work well in a slow twist barrel as the acceleration of the bullet, both speed and spin, do not generate enough heat to cause distortion of the bullet or bullet jacket. Pushed thru a faster twist barrel, the friction from faster twist, and faster acceleration of spin, can generate enough heat in a small area to cause distortion to the bullet or bullet jacket. Heavier bullets, with more bearing surface, do not accelerate as fast, and have more surface area to share the heat build up.
Outside temperature, barrel temperature, action temperature and length of time ammo is locked in battery all play a role in ignition speed, pressure speed, and acceleration of the bullet. A load right on the edge of stability, could see that occasional flier or unstabilized bullet. A bullet with short bearing surface may work well in a slow twist barrel as the acceleration of the bullet, both speed and spin, do not generate enough heat to cause distortion of the bullet or bullet jacket. Pushed thru a faster twist barrel, the friction from faster twist, and faster acceleration of spin, can generate enough heat in a small area to cause distortion to the bullet or bullet jacket. Heavier bullets, with more bearing surface, do not accelerate as fast, and have more surface area to share the heat build up.
The Sierra manual doesn't show loads over 3700 fps with the 53MK bullet. Your at 3950 with signs of pressure. The Match King bullets won't expand on just about any size varmint. Pencil holes. The Sierra bullets with the name Blitz or Blitz King are intended for very rapid expansion. They list 3600 fps max with H380. Seven other powders suitable for 3700 fps. I know the manuals may be conservative but you said you have shiny ejector marks. Back off a little. Good luck hunting.
I'm shooting 53gr V-Max and also a 26" Brux bbl . They seem to be fast shooting barrels
Also I'm using the Magneto V3 chronograph ,hopefully its giving accurate readings .
The only experience I had with keyholeing was with a Firestorm .22LR pistol. I was using Remington Thunderbolt ammo and it severely leaded the barrel. After 500 rounds, it would keyhole at 7 yards. Chunks of lead cam out of the barrel, some resembled aluminum foil with the rifling imprinted on the back side. After cleaning, the pistol shot accurately again. It would start leading the barrel by 50 rounds. I bought 5 bricks of the Thunderbolt and sold it at half price just to get rid of it. I wouldn't use it again if it were free. For plinking, I try to use only the copper plated ammo.
Was the tube a nice finish for it to lead foul so badly ?
Seemed to be. Looked normal and shiny. I used other non plated ammo in it a few times without much if any leading but not in any quantity, maybe 40-50 rounds at a time. The lead was deposited all the way down the barrel. This was 12 years ago so I don't remember all the details. Could have been the barrel finish, the exact alloy of lead used, I don't know. Oh well, I'll never use it again.
Ledd Slinger
Silver $$ Contributor
Yeah Remington thunderbolt and Winchester 22lr ammo is about as bad as it gets. Total junk.
Like everyone said, you probably damaged the bullet spinning it too fast. Typically shooting through a faster twist than necessary isn't bad, but there are limits.
Last summer I shot 300 rounds out of my 243AI at prairie dogs. 105 AMAX at 3250fps. 297 rounds did what they were expected to. 3 rounds, 1%, hit WAY low, like landing 100 yards short on a 600 yard shot. I can only guess the bullets were damaged because the barrel was getting dirty after a long string of fire. I've run 22-26 shots in 10 minutes in F-class with that gun and never had a round do that.
Last summer I shot 300 rounds out of my 243AI at prairie dogs. 105 AMAX at 3250fps. 297 rounds did what they were expected to. 3 rounds, 1%, hit WAY low, like landing 100 yards short on a 600 yard shot. I can only guess the bullets were damaged because the barrel was getting dirty after a long string of fire. I've run 22-26 shots in 10 minutes in F-class with that gun and never had a round do that.
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