what tollerances for top shooters

[Alex Wheeler]

One other thing when it comes to annealing.... how are you holding consistency here? Most other time we setup by eye. I used 200 piece of brass, that made consistency much easier and helped my aggs in my opinion.

 

[Regnar]

Larry, altough amusing, what does this have to do with my question?

 

[dmoran]

Alex -
It's obvious Larry hasn't a clue what were talking about, and once again trying to turn it into "I'm the hero at gongs at my local yoko pond" and the misconceptions to how what he does is so much greater.... lol
Donovan

 

[Shrek]

Set the turner on an ice pack between cases and when you see the necks start to get thicker your getting the tool warm.

Some solutions are soooo obvious that I can't see them ! I have always just taken a break and let the cutter naturally cool. Ice pack will be on the bench next time I clean up necks. I have 300 7mm WSM to do soon.

 

[22DASHER]

Real men shoot anything and don't mind doing it . And don't cry when they don't win . When I miss I don't blame the scope or the Gun the conditions . I just didn't do my job . Larry

Larry. Some people ARE good enough to blame their gun or equipment. Just because you or I can't do it doesn't mean squat. Now back to the original post please.

 

[dmoran]

Real men shoot anything and don't mind doing it . And don't cry when they don't win . When I miss I don't blame the scope or the Gun the conditions . I just didn't do my job . Larry

Sure had excuses for when you pee'd your pants at Williamsport...lol (your 1 time out into the real world)

 

[Regnar]

Real men shoot anything and don't mind doing it . And don't cry when they don't win . When I miss I don't blame the scope or the Gun the conditions . I just didn't do my job . Larry

Anyone who does not cry when they loose in some for or another is either a loose who never wins or somone who is not willing to put the effort in required to win and is willing to accept defeat.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

I will tell a story quickly about the importance of a tuned rifle and good equipment.

At Manatee the berm used to be 565yds or 500 meters. Its 600 now. Anyhow we used to shoot a mock IBS match. Same rules as 600 IBS, a 4 target agg.
I brought my girl friend and set her on my rifle to shoot the match. She has good gun handling skills, but is slow and has no clue about conditions, and never shot a match. She does not look at flags or mirage, exc. So, she proceeds to set the club record with a 1.6xx" agg over 4 targets. The really impressive thing to me was there wasn't one lucky group to bring the agg down. Her 4 targets ranged from 1.3"-1.8". A teen agg with every group a teen. I think even with the extra 35 yards they still would have all been teens. Thats what can happen with a well tuned gun, good equipment, and novice shooter.

 

[davidpatton]

Another good post heading to the graveyard... Op, lots of good info here if you can sort through it. Gong shooting? Do yall let men do that or just women

 

[Regnar]

YEs there is and thanks to you who have contributed something to my question. I am going to be trying a few things that I have learned on hear, change a few things which I currently do and perhaps even emiminate a few proceeses I currently do.

PLease keep them coming.

Is there a way to delete larrys posts? I love laying into keyboard commandos but woukd like to keep this one on point.

 

[dmoran]

..... Is there a way to delete larrys posts? I love laying into keyboard commandos but woukd like to keep this one on point.

If I may suggest: just ask him to refrain from posting in your threads.
Anything from there will be seen through as harmless gas and his usual rubric.
Donovan

 

[dkhunt14]

Wouldn't that be a aim point problem ? Larry

No!!!! Matt

 

[dkhunt14]

Wouldn't that be a aim point problem ? Larry

This is what you get from shooting gongs and not paper. Lots of things to be learned by looking at the targets.

You will never see the gun or load that shoots through conditions on a gong.
You will never see the holes are smaller or larger.
You will never see the point of impact change that Alex is talking about.

I have had barrels that will group. I have had barrels that will group and score. I have had barrels that will shoot record groups but will not score. I even had one or two that would do neither. I have seen barrels change from sighter period and will not stay centered. The bad part is most the time they don't change the same amount. I had one where you had to put two 1/4 inch clicks on after sighter period. It helped that gun but it still didn't make it an aggregate winner.

Larry, these are things that exist and you will never see by shooting gongs and 2 shot groups. LARRY YOU NEED TO READ AND STUDY POST 61 AND 64. This exists. Matt

 

[dragman]

Like Matt said! Lots to learn with that paper!
I shoot Steel matches and gongs and it is WAY more fun IMHO, but when I am testing and feeling out guns I use clays out at distance to check programs and then swing to paper to see what is happening. To see the same anomalies happen time and time again on paper with a particular setup will make you a believer checking and not relying on just gongs.

 

[davidpatton]

YEs there is and thanks to you who have contributed something to my question. I am going to be trying a few things that I have learned on hear, change a few things which I currently do and perhaps even emiminate a few proceeses I currently do.

PLease keep them coming.

Is there a way to delete larrys posts? I love laying into keyboard commandos but woukd like to keep this one on point.

Unfortunately on the big wide web people can say anything and sometimes people believe it. If you want to learn reloading like the ibs guys do just go to a match. Everyone there is always helpful, and im sure you wont see larry there! I shot half of a season just playing around and i knew nothing. The top shooters in the sport helped me more than i ever expected and the next year i won 15 1000 yard relays, 6th at the 1000 yard nationals, and many 600 yard matches. Every match we shoot is documented online for the world to see. I didnt hide at my own home range, and by getting out and shooting i got to meet some of the best. Show up and ask questions, but be humble

 

[dkhunt14]

Your 25 years too late or longer I attended every ATA Match in the nation Learn it not the gun but the shooter . Archery was the same .
Stock car racing is the car not the driver .
If you feel frogy come and try a gong match .
Better yet make a gong for your range.
Watch your attendance rise . Larry

Apparently you didn't learn anything from that Larry. I am not making fun of you so don't get mad. The things Alex said is true and almost all the TOP BR guys have seen and learned it. There are guns and loads that shoot through it, there are barrels that will shoot great groups but will not stay centered even in perfect conditions. Read Alex's posts again. Our 10 ring is like a 7 inch gong except all shots are proven on paper. Things to be learned by looking at them holes, something you will not learn on a gong. Matt

 

[davidpatton]

Your 25 years too late or longer I attended every ATA Match in the nation Learn it not the gun but the shooter . Archery was the same .
Stock car racing is the car not the driver .
If you feel frogy come and try a gong match .
Better yet make a gong for your range.
Watch your attendance rise . Larry

Im not going to keep on discussing with you on his post. Maybe i can convince the wife to come to a match down there one day and we will shoot and discuss. You have to be easy on me though, i dont know much about racing.... smile

 

[Northridge]

I have" aim point problems all the time" Lol!!! Just ask Tom & Alex but what does a hit or miss on a metal disc have to do with tolerances that top shooters may or may not implement? Maybe I will be" qualified " one day.... Qualifying ammo is just one step toward the finish line. Most humans simply put are not fully qualified to get the most out of shooting system day in day out regardless of the platforms proposed potential. Take nothing at face value verify all aspects of your shooting system not just quality of ammo or that crummy relay you just ended up on. Even though this system or that is what works, take some risks.

Shawn Williams

 

[foxguy]

If you would seat the bullets a hair deeper to break them loose, they will pull easier. I bet if you reseated them a few thousandths deeper before you shot them it would stop the fliers from cold welding. Matt

Just a question?, How long does it take a newly loaded round to cold weld In a case that has previously been fired? Any Ideas?

 

[dkhunt14]

Just a question?, How long does it take a newly loaded round to cold weld In a case that has previously been fired? Any Ideas?

I feel it depends upon things. Maybe how much neck tension, how hard the brass is and how long it sets. Probably the formula of the brass also and how clean the necks are. It starts getting tight as soon as you put a bullet in. I have seen some where it sits for an hour or two and if you push the bullet deeper you get a pop sound when it let's go. That mens it is starting to stick. Naturally, the longer they sit the tighter they get. Cold Weld comes when they sit a while. I believe it is a chemical reaction of the copper to brass.

If your gun likes less tension or even tension, I wouldn't seat a bullet for competition, a long time before shooting them. Some guys seat them long and finishing seating them the night before or mourning of the shoot. Matt