what tollerances for top shooters

[Regnar]

I have been reloading for a accuracy and precesion for a little more than a year. Thanks to some really helpfull people I am way ahead of the learning curve. m

My question is this, to what tollerences are the top shooters reloading to?

Powder charge?

Shoulders?

TRim length?

CAse volume?

BUllet length?

SEating dept?

CBot?

ANything I am missing?

Just curious. i dont have the time to compete at nationl level but enjoy my quiet time in my reloading room imensley and would like to bring my reloading to the level of the top shootets.

THanks

 

[dmoran]

My own maximums:

• 0.04-hundredths = Powder charge?
• 0.0005" = Shoulders?
• 0.002" = Trim length?
• 0.3-tenths = Case volume?
• 0.0005" Base-to-Ogive = Bullet length?
• 0.001" = Seating dept?

For LR-BR primarily... Good Luck,
Donovan

 

[Keith Glasscock]

My question is this, to what tollerences are the top shooters reloading to?

Powder charge? .02 grain

Shoulders? I don't measure - the process is accurate enough

TRim length? I don't trim. I shoot cartridges that never see the brass grow beyond the max length in the life of a case.

CAse volume? Hmmm. Hard to quantify

BUllet length? I shoot all of them. I only separate stuff for processing.

SEating depth? I measure 3-5 out of a batch to determine if I'm getting the dimension I want.

CBTO? See above

ANything I am missing? Processes make my ammunition what it is. I rarely if ever have bullets go out of the group for reasons other than my own wind calling.

I shoot long range F-open with some success.

 

[Regnar]

Keith, thanks for the reply. if you dont mind i will pick your brain. thrse are legit questions and not ment yto question or argue with you.

SHouldets. you dont measure? do you bump .001? .005? or you teslly dont pay attention?

TRim length. you dont make sure all case are the same before turning of necks? does tjst not effect neck tension?

Bullet length. WHat do you mran you only sepetate for processing?

Case volume. do you seperate case based on case volume?

Seating depth. you measure 3-5. if you ate at 2.0175 what would make you cull a round?

THanks.

 

[davidpatton]

My own maximums:

• 0.04-hundredths = Powder charge?
• 0.0005" = Shoulders?
• 0.002" = Trim length?
• 0.3-tenths = Case volume?
• 0.0005" Base-to-Ogive = Bullet length?
• 0.001" = Seating dept?

For LR-BR primarily... Good Luck,
Donovan

This is almost identical to what i do also....only different step is i seat on an arbor press and sort finished product by seating force and concentricity. Basically for my record shots i try to use the ones that seated the same and have the lowest runout. Just how i do it, not saying its correct there are many different opinions

 

[morpheus]

Being able to read the wind helps too. Just sayin'...

 

[Richard Coody]

Being able to read the wind helps too. Just sayin'...

The wind humbles the best of shooter. Separates the winners from the losers.

That said it is best to do everything you can to control the variables you can control

As we all know consistency is the key to this game

 

[Mulligan]

My own maximums:

• 0.04-hundredths = Powder charge?
• 0.0005" = Shoulders?
• 0.002" = Trim length?
• 0.3-tenths = Case volume?
• 0.0005" Base-to-Ogive = Bullet length?
• 0.001" = Seating dept?

For LR-BR primarily... Good Luck,
Donovan

I'm not sure I uunderstand the difference between seating depth and base-to-ogive. Obviously I'm missing something.
CW

 

[Keith Glasscock]

Keith, thanks for the reply. if you dont mind i will pick your brain. thrse are legit questions and not ment yto question or argue with you.

SHouldets. you dont measure? do you bump .001? .005? or you teslly dont pay attention?

TRim length. you dont make sure all case are the same before turning of necks? does tjst not effect neck tension?

Bullet length. WHat do you mran you only sepetate for processing?

Case volume. do you seperate case based on case volume?

Seating depth. you measure 3-5. if you ate at 2.0175 what would make you cull a round?

THanks.

In all seriousness, you asked about tolerances. I don't measure all that much. I measure only what I need to to ensure I'm loading to the design spec of the round.

Shoulder bump: I bump only enough to ensure functioning. Realistically, I bump .002 as I do my settings in .002 increments. I don't really care if 50 are .0015 and 10 are .002 or .0025 it just doesn't make any difference.

Trim length: The cases I have today for Dasher and 284 have never been on the trimmer. Some have 10+ cycles on them. I form my own Dasher brass out of Lapua. I turn all necks and I don't trim first.

I use a Whidden pointing die for some types of bullets. I sort bullets before pointing to ensure I don't smash some and fail to point others.

Case volume: I don't have a tolerance that can be quantified on the loading bench. I'm experimenting with a new process and think I might have something here.

Seating depth: Once again, I use a process that eliminates large deviations (LE Wilson seater). I don't cull seating depth unless I get one wrong during setup.

Hope this clarifies things.

 

[davidpatton]

I'm not sure I uunderstand the difference between seating depth and base-to-ogive. Obviously I'm missing something.
CW

I would say base to ogive is the measurement used when sorting bullets

 

[dmoran]

I'm not sure I uunderstand the difference between seating depth and base-to-ogive. Obviously I'm missing something.
CW

For me, even from qualified bullets by ogive lengths and modifications I may perform (trim, point) to them, the seating resistance of the case necks can still create out-liar's here and there to seating depths, and is where I will tolerate no more then 0.001" variation in seating depths. Consistent neck wall thickness and neck tension uniformity greatly prevail to equality in seating depths.
Hoping this answer is what your were asking... Best Regards
Donovan

 

[BoydAllen]

The trick is to deal with the most important things before you get carried away with the less important. I see shooters that love to worry about details that are not very important for the kind of shooting that they do, while they ignore things that really do matter. In many cases shooters say they are all about the accuracy but if you look at what they are doing, they are all about controlling a few variables while totally ignoring others. Of course, since it is a hobby, if it works for them then they are good to go.

 

[Mulligan]

For me, even from qualified bullets by ogive lengths and modifications I preform (trim, point) to them, the seating resistance of the case necks can still create out-liar's here and there, and is where I will tolerate no more then 0.001" variation in seating depths. Consistent neck wall thickness and tension set greatly prevail to equality in seating depths. Hoping this answer is what your were asking... Best Regards
Donovan

Thanks Donavan, exactly what I was looking for.
CW

 

[ImBIllT]

Powder charge- for 100-200yds, I just throw it with a BR30 and go with it. That's usually within +- .1-.5gr. For F-class I weigh on a beam scale to +- a half a tenth. I will be going electronic this year for the sake of speed, but see no reason for tighter tolerance. .1gr grain variation gives me dry suitable vertical.

Shoulders-I neck size till the bolt is hard to close, then I bump with a full body. If one case is tight in a match and the rest were not, I don't shoot that case. If there were starting to get tight and one case is not, I don't shoot that case.

Trim length- I trim with a Wilson trimmer and it seems that +- about .001" is about as close as I can trim them. Sometimes a good batch of brass is better than that out of the box. I don't mix brass that's more than .001" above of below my target. I'm not sure it matters. I won't measure any of it again until I have to bump the shoulder, and even then I don't measure. I just throw it all back on the trimmer. Some get a little knocked off, some get a little more knocked off.

Case volume- after uniforming my brass I weight sort into groups that are within about a 1.5gr spread for .308 sized brass. Less for smaller brass, more for larger brass.

Bullet length-after using a comparator on Berger and Lapua, I don't measure bullets. Bergers don't get mixed from one box to another. I have no problem dumping half a box of Lapua bullets into another box of Lapua bullets.

I won't bother shooting other brands in competition because I don't have enough free time to measure. I'm self employed and would rather work a little longer day and buy Bergers than spend my time measuring bullets.

 

[Regnar]

Being able to read the wind helps too. Just sayin'...

THis has nothing to do with wind. It has to do with people who shoot well and how they reload.

 

[Regnar]

I'm not sure I uunderstand the difference between seating depth and base-to-ogive. Obviously I'm missing something.
CW

NO your not. i was tired and dupicated myself.

 

[Regnar]

In all seriousness, you asked about tolerances. I don't measure all that much. I measure only what I need to to ensure I'm loading to the design spec of the round.

Shoulder bump: I bump only enough to ensure functioning. Realistically, I bump .002 as I do my settings in .002 increments. I don't really care if 50 are .0015 and 10 are .002 or .0025 it just doesn't make any difference.

Trim length: The cases I have today for Dasher and 284 have never been on the trimmer. Some have 10+ cycles on them. I form my own Dasher brass out of Lapua. I turn all necks and I don't trim first.

I use a Whidden pointing die for some types of bullets. I sort bullets before pointing to ensure I don't smash some and fail to point others.

Case volume: I don't have a tolerance that can be quantified on the loading bench. I'm experimenting with a new process and think I might have something here.

Seating depth: Once again, I use a process that eliminates large deviations (LE Wilson seater). I don't cull seating depth unless I get one wrong during setup.

Hope this clarifies things.

Thanks keith it does. I appreciate the insight.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Things I believe are you cant measure powder too accurately. When I was competitive I would swap small grains for large grains to weight to the resolution of my scale .02gn. Bullet base to ogive +/- .0005" per batch. Case length +/- .001, seating depth +/- zero, shoulder bump +/- .0005", neck thickness +/- .00005". The necks are important. You can get them so good you cant measure the difference with a .0001" mic. edge prep on the cutter and controlling the temp. is key to this. I never sorted cases, couldnt find a way that I could prove was reliable. I'll probably revisit this again. Donovan and Tom seem to be making it work.

 

[Mulligan]

Things I believe are you cant measure powder too accurately. When I was competitive I would swap small grains for large grains to weight to the resolution of my scale .02gn. Bullet base to ogive +/- .0005" per batch. Case length +/- .001, seating depth +/- zero, shoulder bump +/- .0005", neck thickness +/- .00005". The necks are important. You can get them so good you cant measure the difference with a .0001" mic. edge prep on the cutter and controlling the temp. is key to this. I never sorted cases, couldnt find a way that I could prove was reliable. I'll probably revisit this again. Donovan and Tom seem to be making it work.

That's good intel, thanks Alex
CW

 

[Regnar]

Things I believe are you cant measure powder too accurately. When I was competitive I would swap small grains for large grains to weight to the resolution of my scale .02gn. Bullet base to ogive +/- .0005" per batch. Case length +/- .001, seating depth +/- zero, shoulder bump +/- .0005", neck thickness +/- .00005". The necks are important. You can get them so good you cant measure the difference with a .0001" mic. edge prep on the cutter and controlling the temp. is key to this. I never sorted cases, couldnt find a way that I could prove was reliable. I'll probably revisit this again. Donovan and Tom seem to be making it work.

WHat do you do to keep the temp down when turning necks.