Spin off of "to flute or not to"

[Scarface26]

Gents,

Didn't want to highjack Tackdriver's thread with my question so here it is:

I've got a rifle that I love but the barrel is heavier than I'd like. Didn't know as much when I had it built as I do now, and if anyone wants the backstory I'll share, but I'd like this rifle to go on Jenny Craig. How best to do it?

Flute the barrel?

Have the barrel turned down to a lighter contour?

Re-barrel for the desired weight and balance?

The only reason I'm wasting your time with these questions is that the rifle is truly a tack driver. A few years back I shot three three-shot groups in a row that measured under 2" at 700 yards. Haven't done that since, but it's my fault, not the barrel. FWIW, this barrel is a Rock Creek .308 26" and is almost an inch at the muzzle. I think it's an MTU contour. Any position not using a rest is something you've got to get psyched up for.

Thanks in advance for your thoughtful replies.

God bless America

 

[dkhunt14]

Gents,

Didn't want to highjack Tackdriver's thread with my question so here it is:

I've got a rifle that I love but the barrel is heavier than I'd like. Didn't know as much when I had it built as I do now, and if anyone wants the backstory I'll share, but I'd like this rifle to go on Jenny Craig. How best to do it?

Flute the barrel?

Have the barrel turned down to a lighter contour?

Re-barrel for the desired weight and balance?

The only reason I'm wasting your time with these questions is that the rifle is truly a tack driver. A few years back I shot three three-shot groups in a row that measured under 2" at 700 yards. Haven't done that since, but it's my fault, not the barrel. FWIW, this barrel is a Rock Creek .308 26" and is almost an inch at the muzzle. I think it's an MTU contour. Any position not using a rest is something you've got to get psyched up for.

Thanks in advance for your thoughtful replies.

God bless America

If it shot really good, I believe I could put up with the weight. I believe turning a barrel or fluting after it is rifled can be a risk. If it induces any stress the barrel will walk as it is heated up. I would prefer your third option and rebarrel. But that doesn't guarantee it will shoot as good. I like new barrels. Matt

 

[Ggmac]

I would purchase another barrel . Any mods done on the present MAY alter its current level of accuracy , you can never undue the weight removal .

 

[LHSmith]

Turning down the barrel to a lighter contour is the worst option. Reducing the OD on a barrel that was manufactured in a manner that induced stress will result in a slight increase in bore diameter. To minimize this the OD reduction must be made without generating excessive heat imparted by the cutting tool = slow process = high labor costs. As Matt said option 2 and 3 involve risks. Having said that, in my minds eye a real "tack driver' barrel is one that gains my 100% trust > It PERFORMS day in and day out consistently -no stray shots that are not induced by a missed condition on my part. In short - are you really convinced that the barrel is that good? IMHO those 3 groups from years ago you happened to hit on a load that was in-tune to that condition. A good barrel with a good load will perform well despite moderately varying conditions.

 

[mgunderson]

Had the same problem with a 30 inch MTU taper. I believe it was 10 flutes leaving the land on the top and bottom and remove about 2 lbs. I made the decision it was useless as a heavy barrel and took a chance. It shot great before and after.

You can always twist it off and save it. Sounds like it might make a great bench rifle.

 

[Scarface26]

Gents,

Thanks to all for your replies. More to follow.

God bless America

 

[jmatters]

Gents,

I've got a rifle that I love but the barrel is heavier than I'd like. Didn't know as much when I had it built as I do now, and if anyone wants the backstory I'll share, but I'd like this rifle to go on Jenny Craig. How best to do it?

Is there any room to lighten it up with ultralight NF rings and a lighter scope? I would hate to fix what ain't broken... The balance would get worse, but it would not change how it shoots.

 

[Tommie]

I'd be afraid to breathe on a barrel that shoots like yours, let alone start cutting on it.

 

[ebb]

Yea if it shoots that good and you mess with it you are a fool. A gun that shoots that good is a one in a life time, and if it were mine I would only shoot it when money was on the line. It will wear out soon enough and you can get one as light as you want.

 

[Scarface26]

Gents,

Concur with all. For now, my wallet will stay in my pocket and this gem will remain untouched.

God bless America

 

[Tommie]

Gents,

Concur with all. For now, my wallet will stay in my pocket and this gem will remain untouched.

God bless America

Another disaster averted.

 

[ImBIllT]

If Rock Creek is button rifled, you could cut the barrel shorter, re-barrel, or leave the ends of the barrel alone and contour the middle leaving a fatter bulb at the muzzle. Re-barreling is the best option.

I would suggest shooting groups containing more than three shots. I'm not knocking you or your gun. I'm just suggesting a better way of collecting data. Those three groups do not add up to two complete five shot groups. Two of those three shot groups combine for one five shot group and a sighter, and it's entirely possible that combining two of those groups would have resulted in something a fair bit larger than 2". You can take a very poor shooting gun, and statistically it is still VERY likely to put together a string or two of close impacts over its life. The larger the string you examine, you less likely it is to be good. Five shots is more than twice as good an indicator as three shots. Ten to fifteen shots is dramatically better than five, but the longer the shot string, the more condition comes into play, and you begin to evaluate the shooter as well. The point? The body of work of this rifle over its life is far more telling of its true accuracy than the three, three shot groups that were never repeated. Again, there is value in the fact that they were nine consecutive shots, but the fact that they were not shot into the same group measuring 2" means that if they had been fired into the same group, it is all but certain that it would have been larger than 2". Don't believe me? Pick any target you have with more than three shots on it. Select any three shots at random. Unless you have included the two outside shots, your group has shrunk.

 

[XTR]

Do you, or are you going to have a use for the heavy tube? If not then flute it. I'll bet the only difference you will see is the weight.

I got a barrel for my F-TR rifle that ended up a few oz over weight, I sent it to Kampfeld Customs and had them take off close to a pound with flutes. Still shoots better than I can.

 

[Down South]

Do you, or are you going to have a use for the heavy tube? If not then flute it. I'll bet the only difference you will see is the weight.

I got a barrel for my F-TR rifle that ended up a few oz over weight, I sent it to Kampfeld Customs and had them take off close to a pound with flutes. Still shoots better than I can.

I knocked 12 ounces off a barrel of mine for weight savings and it's definately a shooter! Flutes are not too deep as it's a 32 inch barrel and has 8 flutes but it doesn't look like it hurt it for sure. It's a Bartlein 5R barrel.

 

[ImBIllT]

I knocked 12 ounces off a barrel of mine for weight savings and it's definately a shooter! Flutes are not too deep as it's a 32 inch barrel and has 8 flutes but it doesn't look like it hurt it for sure. It's a Bartlein 5R barrel.

Bartlein barrels are cut rifled. If Rocks Creek barrels are not, then this comparison does not apply.

 

[Down South]

Bartlein barrels are cut rifled. If Rocks Creek barrels are not, then this comparison does not apply.

As far as i know Rock Creek barrels are cut rifled.

 

[ImBIllT]

As far as i know Rock Creek barrels are cut rifled.

In that case, careful fluting should not harm the accuracy. The only way to know for sure is of course to flute it, but a cut rifled barrel should be able to be fluted post manufacture.

 

[Shoebox]

2" 700 yds get a new barrel and send the old one to me !!
IMHO be happy you have the accuracy !
If my rifle shot that well I would be ecstatic !!!!
And would leave it as it is !!!
Good luck on you decision

 

[Scarface26]

This barrel IS cut rifled. All you guys are supposed to SAVE me money, not find ways for me to spend more!! That being said, I WOULD like for the rifle to balance better.

If I flute this I will do a before and after thread with before and after targets.

WRT the three shot groups - I was getting come-ups for my scope, and three shots of .308 costs $3 as opposed to $5 for five. For what it's worth, the groups all had the same elevation, but were spread by a foot or so in windage.

Another FWIW, the scope I used when I shot those three great groups is a brand that I will not name in a public forum, but their reputation among tactical shooters is poor. The glass was spectacular and the reticle was just right if a little thin. If it would have tracked and held zero I would have married it. (I can probably do that now) One of my instructor friends said he'd NEVER had one of their scopes make it through his class. Still have the Mark IV and the PMII.

Thanks to all and God bless America

 

[msinc]

I have done all three of your options with cut, hammer forged and button rifled barrels. I found zero differences in regards to the rifling method as to how successful or not the changes were. I definitely don't recommend trying to do a re-contour from a MTU to a #1 mountain rifle, but taking it down to a #5 or #6 is not going to be a problem. You just cant go down too far...a couple contour "numbers" should be all. It has to be done slow and it takes a lot of time.
As to fluting, I have never had anything change but my bank account and the weight. Again, just don't let someone cut too many or go too deep. Doing a re-contour is of course more "bang for the buck" than fluting, if you are trying to reduce weight.
When it comes to replacement, how lucky are you??? Anytime I had a barrel that really shot outstanding and I took it for granted that I could just get another one.....well, you might just as well forget it, it just never happens that way. I have spent years trying to replace really great barrels. Bottom line as I have experienced it, I wouldn't worry too much about a proper re-contour or cutting some reasonable flutes having any "devastating" bad effects, but I sure wouldn't believe I was just going to luck onto another barrel that is a great fantastic shooter just like that either!!!
What do I do these days in this situation.....simple...if there ever was a reason to build another rifle.....my boy, this is it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!