Issues with my 6.5-284

[4xforfun]

If you can't get 47 - 48.xgr of H4350 under a 142SMKs jumped .015" with a 210M to shoot half moa or better consistantly than I would bet something is wrong with the barrel, chamber, crown or operator headspace and timing. This load has shoot sub half MOA in the last 8-10 6.5x284s I've built. I dont even remember how many barrels, I don't even test anymore. It just plain works with 8 and 8.5 twists with standard and 5R rifling, cut or buttoned, Norma and Lapua match chambers.

H4350 and the 142 are my next test. I may also do a mini test with the 100 Nostler BT and H4350 for PDogs.

Thanks,
Tod

 

[FatBoy]

H4350 and the 142 are my next test. I may also do a mini test with the 100 Nostler BT and H4350 for PDogs.

Thanks,
Tod

Sounds like a fun test

 

[4xforfun]

Sounds like a fun test

Last summer I tried the 100 NBT over about 50 Gr of H4350 in my 6.5 WSSM. Shot very good and was HELL on the dogs!!!!!

 

[Hengehold]

In order of importance
1. the gun has to like the bullet, if it doesn't, you're wasteing you time
2. seating depth has to be right
3. powder charge with an appropriate powder.

That is interesting... I would have prioritized them in the reverse order with powder charge being the most influential.

- T

 

[ebb]

I don't understand all the love for H1000 , I never could get enough of it in the case to get any where near a velocity that I liked.

 

[DaveTooley]

That is interesting... I would have prioritized them in the reverse order with powder charge being the most influential.

- T

That's the current internet driven hypothesis. It implies any barrel will shoot all bullets to about the same level of accuracy. That's not the case. All of us that have competed for decades have seen hot combinations of barrel and bullets that had a bit of magic dust sprinkled on them. When either one is replaced the shooter needs psychiatric help, it's that drastic a change. Bullets from the same manufacture but different lots can and will perform differently. When you find the right bullet you know it in about 10 rounds. Then you go to work fine tuning the load.

Lets say I take a hunting rifle to the range to tune up. I take 4 bullets and one powder. I do my usual touching the lands and go up on the powder until reaching the yield point of the brass. I back the powder charge off and start shooting two shot groups at 200 yds.. Each group has a different seating depth. If after shooting 5 or 6 groups nothing shows promise I move on to the next bullet and repeat the process. As soon as I find a bullet that works I'll fire additional groups to verify consistency. I get a rifle tuned up in an afternoon at the range.

 

[Hengehold]

That's the current internet driven hypothesis. It implies any barrel will shoot all bullets to about the same level of accuracy. That's not the case. All of us that have competed for decades have seen hot combinations of barrel and bullets that had a bit of magic dust sprinkled on them. When either one is replaced the shooter needs psychiatric help, it's that drastic a change. Bullets from the same manufacture but different lots can and will perform differently. When you find the right bullet you know it in about 10 rounds. Then you go to work fine tuning the load.

Lets say I take a hunting rifle to the range to tune up. I take 4 bullets and one powder. I do my usual touching the lands and go up on the powder until reaching the yield point of the brass. I back the powder charge off and start shooting two shot groups at 200 yds.. Each group has a different seating depth. If after shooting 5 or 6 groups nothing shows promise I move on to the next bullet and repeat the process. As soon as I find a bullet that works I'll fire additional groups to verify consistency. I get a rifle tuned up in an afternoon at the range.

Interesting, thanks for sharing. What type of competition are you involved in?

-T

 

[dkhunt14]

Interesting, thanks for sharing. What type of competition are you involved in?

-T

Dave is a famous gunsmith from North Carolina and has competed for years in 600 and 1000 yard benchrest. He helped design a stock for 1000 yard shooting and McMillan named the stock the Tooley MBR. He also made a lot of longrange cartridges like the Boo Boo, Yogi, and a few others. Matt

 

[Rust]

I like everything about a 6.5 X 284 except barrel life. When I first started with the 6.5 I used up most of a really good barrel experimenting. Being as it is so hard on barrels I quite development when I settled on a combination.

Brass is Lapua, 500 pieces from the same lot number. Bullets are 139 Scenars from a single lot number. Powder is H4350 (I check over a chrono when switching lot numbers). Primers are plain old CCI LR (BR primers didn't improve SD/ES numbers). I seat into the lands. On a good day condition wise it will hold 1/2 minute at 1,000. On one notably bad day I was lucky to get 85 out of a possible 200 but that was wind.

Once I get something to work I don't go chasing magic bullets or magic powders. I'll grant that H4350 is just a tad fast and burns a little hot but the results were just plain better.

 

[4xforfun]

Update. Finally had the perfect storm of good weather, snow gone, time, and the ambition to go out and try this again with new loads. Switched to the 142 SMK and H4350. I also tried the 100 Nostler Balistic tip with H4350. I went up in .5 grain jumps and this was shot on 1X fired brass.

NO JOY..... Two shot groups were between 3/4 and 1 inch at 100 yards. After a couple of groups I tried without the muzzle break and I got a near 1 hole (2 shot) group. AH-HA...I said to myself. But the next four groups were all 3/4 to 1 inch. Musta got a REVERSE FLYER!

Going to ship it off to my smith for a closer look with a bore scope. Next option is back to Kreiger.

1st bad BBL ever for me...I guess it was bound to happen sooner or later.

Thanks,
Tod

 

[Brians356]

Going to ship it off to my smith for a closer look with a bore scope.

Is he the smith who chambered and installed the barrel? Whatever he finds of interest might (should?) have been spotted when he was building it, no?
-

 

[4xforfun]

Is he the smith who chambered and installed the barrel? Whatever he finds of interest might (should?) have been spotted when he was building it, no?
-

I don't know...how many smiths run a bore scope down a new bbl. Also..it may have spit out some of it's lady parts during the first couple of shots.

 

[hogpatrol]

What really is the percentage of bad barrels out there? How is it determined definitively that it IS the barrel when just inspecting with a borescope. Could it not be a deficiency with the set up, reamer, chamber job, crown, action, etc.? Long time smiths, what say you? Common or rare?

 

[4xforfun]

What really is the percentage of bad barrels out there? How is it determined definitively that it IS the barrel when just inspecting with a borescope. Could it not be a deficiency with the set up, reamer, chamber job, crown, action, etc.? Long time smiths, what say you? Common or rare?

Like was stated earlier...the "platform" is my BAT 1K comp gun with a 42X NF scope on it. Whenever I screw one of my Dasher tubes on it it shoots BUGHOLES. EVERY TIME. So we can check off scope, action, bedding and anything else "platform" related as being the problem. The bore scope will tell us if there is an issue with the crown and any defects in the bore. How could you tell if it is a reamer problem? I have no answer for that. Driver error.... I've shot a thousand groups with this gun...including the Nationals, so I figure I can check that off of the list. The smith...he has had all of my buisnes since 2010 and does great work. I do, however, realize that EVERYONE can have a bad day....and if there is a problem with the work he will own it with no excuses. I have 100% trust in him. If he clears it I have no idea what Kreiger will say....maybe tell me that I am SOOL. I do know that other than after the first and second shot, there has never been a brush used. I haved NEVER used any JB or IASSO in this tube, and the little bit of Sweets sat for no more than 15 minutes.

I don't know, but shooting any more groups is a waist of time. I used 140 Berger Hybrids, 140 Hunting VLD's, 142 Sierra MK's, and 100 grain Nostler Balistic tips over 3 different powders.

Help me...I've fallen and I can't get up!!!

 

[dkhunt14]

I don't know...how many smiths run a bore scope down a new bbl. Also..it may have spit out some of it's lady parts during the first couple of shots.

If it's a good smith, I think they all look at the throat. They want to make sure it is cut good and didn't spin a chip. Matt

 

[birdog]

I have always had good results with 4350 but last time I spun thec6.5x 284 barrel on I did it for s specific reason.
I wanted to test with RL-17.
I like what I saw. An extra 75 to 100 fps extra with equal or better accuracy.
This article is making me want to put my new never shot 6.5 barrel on. Bugholes of Southern Precision Rifles is the smith.
I love the 6.5 for longer ranges

 

[FatBoy]

I don't recall how many rounds you have down the tube, but I am curious to see if the smith finds a carbon ring in the throat. I brush and JB the piss out of mine after 300 rounds. They don't last long enough for me to baby them.

Curious, does a bullet just drop into the mouth of a fired case? I have talked to a couple guys in the last month who's newer Lapua (not 6.5x284) is about .002" tighter in their old chambers. Any chance the case mouth is rolled in a tiny bit?

If it is the barrel, I would bet a call to them from your smith will get you a new tube, or at least a pull and send back for inspection. I haven't had a bad one yet, but I'm only on maybe my 20th barrel. Some of these cats on this board are probably over 200.

 

[SheepDog]

Some times a barrel just refuses to shoot. Sometimes it will do better with a different weight or length bullet and some seem to be sensitive to powders. It is rare but it does happen. I use smaller adjustments in powder charges but I am not shooting a competition barrel that will have a short life either.

 

[4xforfun]

MY documents show that I have loaded up 140 rounds, but I have 8 rounds that I didn't even bother to fire....so 132 round count.

Carbon ring....unless this thing came with the optional carbon ring from the factory, we can rule it out. Tube has been a dud since round 4.....the first 3 shots were fired "in the dirt"...and no...I didn't stick the muzzle into the dirt when I fired

As far as bullet selection...140 VLD, 140 Hybrid, 142 SMK, and 100 Nostler Balistic Tip. I have fired enough tests in this BBL to NOT have that urge to go out and try something else. The urge is gone.

I thought that rechambering over to the 6.5-47L might help, but I'me over that now, too!!

I'll just clean it up really good and spin it off and let my smith take a look. I think GOD is punishing me because I never really did NEED this caliber.....I just wanted a "between" caliber to fit in between my 6-6.5-47L and my various 300 WBY's for banging steel well into the 4 digit range. I was going to build a 284...I had already baught the brass, but ordered the WRONG TUBE and got a 6.5!!! This is his way of telling me to measure twice, and cut once!!

Tod

 

[FatBoy]

Good luck. Hopefully they find an eclusion or a land that just flaked off or something obvious like that. It really is a great caliber, as long as you don't mind changing barrels. You're tooled up for it, if you get another barrel maybe give it another chance.