Whats yalls 22 Nosler wildcat ideas?!

[Brians356]

Why 100 gr Speer? I've been considering a 25 Creedmoor for some time but I figured the 115gr Berger was the only production made bullet to choose from.
Tell me more about the Speer bullets.

Nosler 100-BT is a fine choice. Killed like lightning in my 250 AI from 350 yds on my antelope, and very accurate. (FWIW 250 AI 30-deg is almost identical to a "25 Creedmore".)
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[Brians356]

Ive heard that before too. Back when i started reloading. I cross references nosler once with something i was playing with at the time and noslers data was way different that other sources, so i steered away from noslers data skeptical...

I've noticed implausible capacity figures elsewhere in the Nosler book in the net capacities with bullets seated. When two different but similar (e.g. boattail) bullets are seated to the same COAL, the longer of the two must leave less net capacity, but there are examples in their book that seem to break that rule. One day I'm going to compile a list and inform Nosler - not that they will care, they seem to have a superior "Uh huh. What's your point?" attitude.
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[ASbobcat]

You shouldn't trust that. To repeat:

Nosler Tech Support admitted to me the capacity figures on their web site are contradictory, and therefore unreliable. So let's not assume anything in print is correct.

Let me pose it another way: Nosler report case capacity as both 34.7 and 34.2 on two different pages. How did you determine which is correct, when Nosler themselves couldn't tell me when I called them last week?
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0.5 grains is background noise to me. So as far as I'm concerned, I don't care which number is correct. My BR cases hold more than 35.0 gr to the base of the neck.

 

[Sniper338]

My BR cases hold more than 35.0 gr to the base of the neck.

I think we could ass agree that a 22BR in a bolt gun would be superior over this 22 nosler.

But the 22 nosler wasnt made for the bolt gun industry i dont think..

 

[Brians356]

... the 22 nosler wasnt made for the bolt gun industry i dont think..

Wasn't made against it, either. It was made, that much we might all agree on.
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[Brians356]

0.5 grains is background noise to me. So as far as I'm concerned, I don't care which number is correct. My BR cases hold more than 35.0 gr to the base of the neck.

Fair enough. But I think you miss my point. Since the Nosler tech I talked to admitted the numbers posted online don't make any sense, that means both 34.7 and 34.2 could be wrong. In other words, we really have no actual case capacity figure, until either a) Nosler posts new verified figures, or b) someone measures a case and reports it on a forum. And in fact, I will wait for "b" since I won't really trust anything Nosler publishes again.

I think it's probably safe to conclude your 22 BR holds more than the 22 Nosler, if that's all you wanted to know. But I'm cursed with innate curiosity, and like to ponder how relatively efficient a cartridge might be, so I'll wait patiently for the actual case capacity, should it ever emerge from obscurity.
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[ASbobcat]

Fair enough. But I think you miss my point. Since the Nosler tech I talked to admitted the numbers posted online don't make any sense, that means both 34.7 and 34.2 could be wrong. In other words, we really have actual case capacity figure, until either a) Nosler posts new verified figures, or b) someone measures a case and reports it on a forum. And in fact, I will wait for "b" since I won't really trust anything Nosler publishes again.

I think it's probably safe to conclude your 22 BR holds more than the 22 Nosler, if that's all you wanted to know. But I'm cursed with innate curiosity, and like to ponder how relatively efficient a cartridge might be, so I'll wait patiently for the actual case capacity, should it ever emerge from obscurity.
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Absolutely agree. I am still anxiously awaiting the first field reports on case capacity and brass durability. Those reports seem to be very slow in coming.
Is it possible that some of the "instant gratification" crowd are still gun shy (pun intended) from their Shiraz/Norma Dasher brass experience?

 

[ASbobcat]

I think we could ass agree that a 22BR in a bolt gun would be superior over this 22 nosler.

But the 22 nosler wasnt made for the bolt gun industry i dont think..

Yes, that was the point I was trying to make. The 22 Nosler rebated rim is a superior idea, if the brass is good.
I find it interesting that Alexander Arms no longer offers a "standard" bolt. Their website only shows "hard use/enhanced" bolts for sale. That should tell you all you need to know about trying to stuff case heads larger than .378 into an AR15.
I still get a chuckle reading about Grendel's in bolt action rifles. Talk about "putting lipstick and earrings on a pig".

 

[Brians356]

Absolutely. I am still anxiously awaiting the first field reports on case capacity and brass durability. Those reports seem to be very slow in coming.
Is it possible that some of the "instant gratification" crowd are still gun shy (pun intended) from their Shiraz/Norma Dasher brass experience?

I hear ya.

Say, just what is the 22 BR case capacity in H2O to case mouth? And how does it compare to 22-250?

The 22 Nosler article in the April edition of Shooting Times suggests 22 Nosler is "right on the heels" of 22-250 in performance. But so is the 22 BR.
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[Nvreloader]

Guys

FWIW,
The H2o capacity of the 22 Nosler fired brass,
in my sample was 37.4 grs, flat meniscus,
114.7 grs empty, with primer,
152.1 grs H2o, with primer.

HTH,

Tia,
Don

 

[Brians356]

Guys

FWIW,
The H2o capacity of the 22 Nosler fired brass,
in my sample was 37.4 grs, flat meniscus,

Wow, thanks Don!

But, that leaves Nosler (and writers quoting Nosler's figure) twisting in the wind. The number quoted in Shooting Times is a number found on Nosler's web site - "34.2 to overflowing".

There's no way to account for gaining 9% capacity simply as the difference between a fired and unfired case (one possible explanation for a slight discrepancy.)

Thoughts?
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[Nvreloader]

Brain356

I only have the one sample, with was fired in an AR rifle.

I have to wait a while,
I have a shooter who buys everything new that hits the market,
in the AR type of rifles,
I know he will have one shortly,
he will hit the range and shoot up several boxes of brass,
and leaves the brass lay, (he don't reload),
I'll be there to to police the brass,
then I can give a better results of the fired brass.

From the sample I have,
there seems to be a fairly tight chamber,
as there is very little expansion just above the web area,
primer is normal appearing, there is a ejector mark,
and the line from bolt face extractor area,
consistent with the AR type bolts.

The diameter of the base, below the web expansion area,
just above the extractor groove measures measures .416.4",
across the web expansion area measures .418.5"
case neck thickness is .012/.013" (4 places checked)
length measures 1.475".

A better sample could provide better results for dimensions,
of non fired and fired cases,
once I get my hands on some cases, I'll post the info here.

The only thing I can think of,
is the difference between the spec's from SAAMI,
and actual dimensions of OEM produced brass,
I know SAAMI/Nosler shows .420" in the base diameter etc.

I am hoping that as other shooters start using this case,
is that they will provide more spec's etc.

I just rechecked the weights again,
and came up with the same spec's for this 1 case.

HTH,

Tia,
Don

Wow, thanks Don!

But, that leaves Nosler (and writers quoting Nosler's figure) twisting in the wind. The number quoted in Shooting Times is a number found on Nosler's web site - "34.2 to overflowing".

There's no way to account for gaining 9% capacity simply as the difference between a fired and unfired case (one possible explanation for a slight discrepancy.)

Thoughts?
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[ASbobcat]

I hear ya.

Say, just what is the 22 BR case capacity in H2O to case mouth? And how does it compare to 22-250?

The 22 Nosler article in the April edition of Shooting Times suggests 22 Nosler is "right on the heels" of 22-250 in performance. But so is the 22 BR.
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I don't have the answer to that. The neck of .223/22N is worth about 2.5-3.0gr, so I'm guessing my 22BR (very long)neck is probably about 4.0-4.5gr.
The 22BR comes very close to 22-250 performance with a LOT less powder. The 22BR is an amazingly efficient cartridge. 22-250? Not so much.

 

[ASbobcat]

Brain356

I only have the one sample, with was fired in an AR rifle.

I have to wait a while,
I have a shooter who buys everything new that hits the market,
in the AR type of rifles,
I know he will have one shortly,
he will hit the range and shoot up several boxes of brass,
and leaves the brass lay, (he don't reload),
I'll be there to to police the brass,
then I can give a better results of the fired brass.

From the sample I have,
there seems to be a fairly tight chamber,
as there is very little expansion just above the web area,
primer is normal appearing, there is a ejector mark,
and the line from bolt face extractor area,
consistent with the AR type bolts.

The diameter of the base, below the web expansion area,
just above the extractor groove measures measures .416.4",
across the web expansion area measures .418.5"
case neck thickness is .012/.013" (4 places checked)
length measures 1.475".

A better sample could provide better results for dimensions,
of non fired and fired cases,
once I get my hands on some cases, I'll post the info here.

The only thing I can think of,
is the difference between the spec's from SAAMI,
and actual dimensions of OEM produced brass,
I know SAAMI/Nosler shows .420" in the base diameter etc.

I am hoping that as other shooters start using this case,
is that they will provide more spec's etc.

I just rechecked the weights again,
and came up with the same spec's for this 1 case.

HTH,

Tia,
Don

I did an internet search yesterday for "22Nosler case capacity" and found a very well done you-tube clip showing H2O capacity comparison between 22Nosler an 6.5 Grendel.
I will post more on my takeaway from that tomorrow.

 

[Brians356]

The 22BR comes very close to 22-250 performance with a LOT less powder.

From Hodgdon.com: 50-gr bullet, 24-in barrel, Benchmark powder:

22 BR Rem: 31.5 gr -> 3618 fps
22-250 Rem: 36.0 gr -> 3903 fps

So 4.5 more grains yield 225 fps. That's only a 6.2% velocity gain from 14% more powder, and a perfect illustration of diminishing returns of being "overbore". No doubt a longer barrel would widen the velocity gap some, and of course it's only one powder, but Benchmark is near the top for both cartridges, and representative. As for 22 BR being "very close" to 22-250, let's just say "close enough".
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[Nvreloader]

Guys

Has anybody found a reliable source,
for the MAP pressure levels of the 22 Nosler case yet,
I can not find this info on the SAMMI site, so far.

Tia,
Don

 

[Brians356]

Guys

Has anybody found a reliable source,
for the MAP pressure levels of the 22 Nosler case yet,
I can not find this info on the SAMMI site, so far.

Tia,
Don

Don't hold your breath. SAAMI take their time publishing new cartridges, but since it's from a mainstream OEM, it's doubtless in process. I see 28 Nosler is published, but that was introduced in spring of 2015 (really?), so ...

PS It's odd Nosler sells loaded ammo for 26 Nosler, but do not yet offer any 28 Nosler ammo.

Oops: Never mind. They do offer 28 Nosler ammo, but only in E-Tip.
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[Nvreloader]

Brain 356

FWIW
I am using the MAP level of the 223 case,
running SWAG'S in QL just to see the results.

Tia,
Don

 

[ASbobcat]

From Hodgdon.com: 50-gr bullet, 24-in barrel, Benchmark powder:

22 BR Rem: 31.5 gr -> 3618 fps
22-250 Rem: 36.0 gr -> 3903 fps

So 4.5 more grains yield 225 fps. That's only a 6.2% velocity gain from 14% more powder, and a perfect illustration of diminishing returns of being "overbore". No doubt a longer barrel would widen the velocity gap some, and of course it's only one powder, but Benchmark is near the top for both cartridges, and representative. As for 22 BR being "very close" to 22-250, let's just say "close enough".
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There is a "load map" for both cartridges on this website. It's hard to find an exact "apples to apples" comparison point, but it gives one the general idea. "close enough" is a good summation.

 

[ASbobcat]

I hear ya.

Say, just what is the 22 BR case capacity in H2O to case mouth? And how does it compare to 22-250?

The 22 Nosler article in the April edition of Shooting Times suggests 22 Nosler is "right on the heels" of 22-250 in performance. But so is the 22 BR.
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I measured some cases using LilGun, because it's load density is very close to H2O. These figures are to case mouth for fired/un-resized cases.

22BR=39.5

22-250=47.0 (WIN) 46.0 (Hornady)

22x47L=49.0

This is just one random case of each and does not represent a statistically valid sample, just a ballpark approximation.