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Shipping a rifle action

Joe R said:
Lesloan said: That's taking a helluva chance for very little gain, I think. You do know, I suppose, that you're violating federal law to save a few bucks. No need to pull the firing pin--the penalty is the same either way, and pulling the pin doesn't mitigate the offense.

I respectfully disagree. The manufacturer's instructed me to do that. I was told it is a violation only if I were an arms dealer or arms/action manufacturer. Can you point me to a specific place where it says it is a violation for private individuals to ship to another individual ?

USPS will only ship handguns if the shipper has an FFL. They will ship long guns from a non-FFL, but all gun shipments must go to an FFL, both long guns and handguns. If you want more info, there's plenty on GunBroker.com and, unlike the "official" sites, it's in plain English. Go to the "For Shippers" link.
 
You should keep the signed copy of the FFL for your records. Send copies in the box and insure it. Have a copy with you when you ship it.
 
Joe R said:
Can you point me to a specific place where it says it is a violation for private individuals to ship to another individual ?

Lesloan, I assume you can't point me to anywhere that says it is a violation for and individual to ship a firearm to another individual. Gunbroker involves dealers selling to individuals, and some individuals may chose to use an FFL, but they are not required to.

Sorry, Joe R, but you don't know what you're talking about. GunBroker is for both individuals selling to individuals and for dealers selling to individuals. The transfer is done by a FFL holder, just like all other gun sales except face-to-face transactions by individuals, (where legal, of course), so all shipments may be legally made only to an FFL. I've both bought and sold guns through GB, and I'm not an FFL. I know what I'm talking about. If you doubt that, why don't you, next time you want to ship a handgun, take it to the post office and tell the clerk that it's a pistol but it's OK because you removed the firing pin? Let me know what he says, will you?

Much as I appreciate the opportunity to be your unpaid researcher, I believe I'll decline. Do whatever you like. You are the one who'll pay a fine and/or do the time if caught, not me. I prefer to operate within the law.
 
Joe R said:
Can you point me to a specific place where it says it is a violation for private individuals to ship to another individual ?

Lesloan, I assume you can't point me to anywhere that says it is a violation for and individual to ship a firearm to another individual. Gunbroker involves dealers selling to individuals, and some individuals may chose to use an FFL, but they are not required to.

https://www.atf.gov/content/firearms-frequently-asked-questions-unlicensed-persons#out-of-state-firearm
 
to be on the safe side ship firearms 1 day air. (if its going any farther than that) its required by atf for handguns (from distributor to dealer). this cuts down on mail theft. been there done that, that is stuff been stolen from me :-\
 
Do your self a favor and send the rifle UPS. Our firearms are too important to us to use the postal service. I've had it with the USPS. They seem to make up their own rules as they go along and if you call them on something they make you feel like a terrorist or crook trying to get away with something. If you have ever insured something with them and then had it go missing you will never use them again. UPS has never lost anything of mine and I have used them since they started using trucks:) Good luck to you.
 
CSM19Z5M said:
Do your self a favor and send the rifle UPS. Our firearms are too important to us to use the postal service. I've had it with the USPS. They seem to make up their own rules as they go along and if you call them on something they make you feel like a terrorist or crook trying to get away with something. If you have ever insured something with them and then had it go missing you will never use them again. UPS has never lost anything of mine and I have used them since they started using trucks:) Good luck to you.

I've heard that about the USPS, but have never had a problem with them on a gun shipment. I know, that sounds like famous last words & I'm probably just tempting the gods. Problem for me is that the local P.O. is less than a mile from my house, the nearest UPS hub is maybe 40-45 min. ea. way, and you can only ship UPS at a hub. FedEx hub is a lot closer, maybe 20 min. one way, so I use them when shipping a handgun. One thing I've never tried is scheduling a UPS pickup and, if it's feasible, maybe that's the way to go. Anybody know if that's copacetic?
 
My local post office has been great to deal with, Knock on wood I haven't had to use any insurance. I would bet the local climate of government workers has a bit to do with the service One gets..


Ray
 
raythemanroe said:
My local post office has been great to deal with, Knock on wood I haven't had to use any insurance. I would bet the local climate of government workers has a bit to do with the service One gets..


Ray

You make a good a point. The climate here in Arkansas is no doubt different than that in, say, Connecticut. Even so, I still buy insurance. FWiW, the only time I've had a problem with a gun shipment was not with one I shipped, but with one that was shipped to me (thru an FFL, of course.) It was a CZ 75B handgun shipped thru UPS that someone swiped by just opening the box. The shipment was uninsured, but the seller, a dealer, made it good. I guess he ships enough guns that the savings achieved by not insuring 'em all more than offset the occasional loss.
 
I can't believe the amount of bad information on this thread..........

Long guns can go United States Postal Service. Many post office workers are ignorant of this. Ask to talk to the Post Master.
Only an FFL can ship a handgun through USPS. All citizens must use UPS or FedEx and must use overnight. Overnight is not a federal law, it is a policy of UPS and FedEx.
You do not need an FFL on the shipping end for a rifle or a handgun...A private citizen can ship either to an FFL and it can be returned directly to the sender if it was going to a gunsmith or dealer for repair or replacement.
You can not ship a long gun or a handgun to a private individual across a state line. It must go to an FFL if it crosses a state line.
You do not need an FFL " IN SOME STATES" to ship a firearm from private individual to private individual WITHIN THE SAME STATE. But state law might apply that would prohibit this.
You can now ship a firearm to yourself in care of a hunting lodge or gun club. The receiver can not open the package but can store it for you...IF HE IS ALLOWED TO POSSESS FIREARMS LEGALLY BOTH STATE AND FEDERAL. At the end of the event you can ship it back to your own address.

In EVERY case, state laws might preclude any of the above. Many states have state laws that trump federal law (Massachusetts, NJ, NY, Maryland, California come to mind)

Be careful.......
 
Having had bad luck with USPS and UPS keep this in mind, package your item with the thought that it will get thrown at some point by a Postal Monkey. Insure the heck out of it gun or not, and there will be a fight to get your money back and you will be accused of wrong doing. Take lots of pictures of damaged items. UPS has been good but the throwing of parcels is part of the risk with all. If you pick it up with the bolt sticking out the side of the box don't accept it have the dealer send it back and hope the individual is trustworthy to refund your money.
 
I shipped my barrel and action in a cheap plastic gun case as requested by my Smith. I taped it off a few times with 200 mph tape. Lol...I always figured that if it got lost in transition the insurance would cover it..I have had good luck with USPS but don't like hearing about issues collecting insurance..

Ray
 
HERE ARE THE ACTUAL POSTAL REG'S - SUGGEST THAT YOU CUT & PASTE AND SAVE IT TO YOUR PC AND THEN PRINT IT OUT AND TAKE A COPY WITH YOU EVERY TIME YOU GO TO THE POST OFFICE IN CASE YOU RUN INTO AN EMPLOYEE WHO IS NOT EXPERIENCED WITH THE REQUIREMENTS INVOLVED WITH MAILING FIREARMS:

Contents <DMMTC.htm> Index <I022.htm>


C000 General Information

C020 Restricted or Nonmailable Articles and Substances


***C024****Other Restricted or Nonmailable Matter*

***Summary*

C024 describes other restricted or nonmailable items (e.g., firearms,
sharp instruments, controlled substances, pesticides).


***1.0****Pistols, Revolvers, and Other Concealable Firearms*


1.1***Definitions
*

The terms used in this standard are defined as follows:

a./Handgun/ means any pistol, revolver, or other firearm or device the
mailing of which is regulated by this standard.

b./Pistol/ or /revolver/ means a handgun styled to be fired by the use
of a single hand and to fire or otherwise expel a projectile by the
action of an explosion, spring, or other mechanical action, or air or
gas pressure with enough force to be used as a weapon.

c./Firearm/ means any device, including a starter gun, designed to, or
that may readily be converted to, expel a projectile by the action of an explosion, spring, or other mechanical action, or air or gas pressure with enough force to be used as a weapon.

d./Other firearms capable of being concealed on the person/ include, but are not limited to, short-barreled shotguns and short-barreled rifles.

e.///Short-barreled shotgun/ means a shotgun that has one or more
barrels less than 18 inches long. The term /short-barreled rifle/ means
a rifle that has one or more barrels less than 16 inches long. These
definitions include any weapon made from a shotgun or rifle, whether by
alteration, modification, or otherwise, if such weapon as modified has
an overall length of less than 26 inches. A short-barreled shotgun or
rifle of greater dimension may be regarded as nonmailable when it has
characteristics to allow concealment on the person.

f./Licensed manufacturer/ and /licensed dealer/ mean, respectively, a
manufacturer of firearms or a bona fide dealer of firearms, duly
licensed by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms of the
Department of the Treasury, under the Gun Control Act of 1968 (Public
Law 90-618), 18 USC 921, et seq.

g./Antique firearm/ means any firearm (including those with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system) manufactured in or before 1898, or any replica thereof, if such replica:

(1) Is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional
centerfire fixed ammunition.

(2) Uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition that is no
longer manufactured in the United States and that is not readily
available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade.


1.2***Handguns
*

Pistols, revolvers, and other firearms capable of being concealed on the person (referred to as /handguns)/ are nonmailable unless mailed between the parties listed in 1.3 <#Raq21444> and 1.5 <#Raq24427> after the filing of an affidavit or statement required by 1.4 <#Raq18782> and 1.6 <#Raq12747>.


1.3***Authorized Persons
*

Subject to 1.4 <#Raq18782>, handguns may be mailed by a licensed
manufacturer of firearms, a licensed dealer of firearms, or an
authorized agent of the federal government or the government of a state, territory, or district, only when addressed to a person in one of the following categories for use in the person’s official duties:

a. Officers of the Army, Coast Guard, Air Force, Navy, Marine Corps, or
Organized Reserve Corps.

b. Officers of the National Guard or militia of a state, territory, or
district.

c. Officers of the United States or of a state, territory, or district,
whose official duty is to serve warrants of arrest or commitment.

d. USPS employees authorized by the Chief Postal Inspector.

e. Officers and employees of enforcement agencies of the United States.

f. Watchmen engaged in guarding the property of the United States, a
state, territory, or district.

g. Purchasing agent or other designated member of agencies employing
officers and employees included in 1.3c <#Raq17487> through 1.3e
<#Raq38459>.


1.4***Affidavit of **Addressee
*

Any person proposing to mail a handgun under 1.3 <#Raq21444> must file
with the postmaster, at the time of mailing, an affidavit signed by the
addressee setting forth that the addressee is qualified to receive the
firearm under a particular category of 1.3a <#Raq32652> through 1.3g
<#Raq24539>, and that the firearm is intended for the addressee’s
official use. The affidavit must also bear a certificate stating that
the firearm is for the official duty use of the addressee, signed by one of the following, as appropriate:

a. For officers of Armed Forces, by the commanding officer.

b. For officers and employees of enforcement agencies, by the head of
the agency employing the addressee to perform the official duty with
which the firearm is to be used.

c. For watchmen, by the chief clerk of the department, bureau, or
independent branch of the government of the United States, the state,
the territory, or the district by which the watchman is employed.

d. For the purchasing agent or other designated member of enforcement
agencies, by the head of such agency, that the firearm is to be used by
an officer or employee included in 1.3c <#Raq17487> through 1.3e
<#Raq38459>.


1.5***Manufacturers and **Dealers
*

Handguns may also be mailed between licensed manufacturers of firearms
and licensed dealers of firearms in customary trade shipments, or for
repairing or replacing parts.


1.6***Certificate of **Manufacturers and **Dealers
*

A licensed manufacturer or dealer need not file the affidavit under 1.4
<#Raq18782>, but must file with the postmaster a statement on Form 1508
signed by the mailer that he or she is a licensed manufacturer or dealer of firearms, that the parcels containing handguns (or major component parts thereof) are customary trade shipments or contain such articles for repairing or replacing parts, and that to the best of his or her knowledge or belief the addressees are licensed manufacturers or dealers of firearms.

1.7***FBI Crime Detection **Bureaus
*

Handguns may be mailed without regard to 1.3 <#Raq21444> through 1.6
<#Raq12747> if:

a. Addressed to the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), or its
director, or to the scientific laboratory or crime detection bureau of
any agency whose members are federal law enforcement officers or
officers of a state, territory, or district authorized to serve warrants of arrest or commitment; or

b. Offered by an authorized agent of the federal government as an
official shipment to any qualified addressee in categories 1.3a
<#Raq32652> through 1.3g <#Raq24539>, or to a licensed manufacturer or
dealer of firearms or to a federal agency.


***2.0****Antique Firearms*

Antique firearms sent as curios or museum pieces may be accepted for
mailing without regard to 1.3 <#Raq21444> through 1.6 <#Raq12747>.


***3.0****Rifles and Shotguns*

Although unloaded rifles and shotguns not precluded by 1.1e <#Raq23834>
and 1.2 <#Raq23847> are mailable, mailers must comply with the Gun
Control Act of 1968, Public Law 90-618, 18 USC 921, et seq., and the
rules and regulations promulgated thereunder, 27 CFR 178, as well as
state and local laws. The mailer may be required by the USPS to
establish, by opening the parcel or by written certification, that the
gun is unloaded and not precluded by 1.1e <#Raq23834>.
 
rbertalotto said:
I can't believe the amount of bad information on this thread..........

Long guns can go United States Postal Service. Many post office workers are ignorant of this. Ask to talk to the Post Master.
Only an FFL can ship a handgun through USPS. All citizens must use UPS or FedEx and must use overnight. Overnight is not a federal law, it is a policy of UPS and FedEx.
You do not need an FFL on the shipping end for a rifle or a handgun...A private citizen can ship either to an FFL and it can be returned directly to the sender if it was going to a gunsmith or dealer for repair or replacement.
You can not ship a long gun or a handgun to a private individual across a state line. It must go to an FFL if it crosses a state line.
You do not need an FFL " IN SOME STATES" to ship a firearm from private individual to private individual WITHIN THE SAME STATE. But state law might apply that would prohibit this.
You can now ship a firearm to yourself in care of a hunting lodge or gun club. The receiver can not open the package but can store it for you...IF HE IS ALLOWED TO POSSESS FIREARMS LEGALLY BOTH STATE AND FEDERAL. At the end of the event you can ship it back to your own address.

In EVERY case, state laws might preclude any of the above. Many states have state laws that trump federal law (Massachusetts, NJ, NY, Maryland, California come to mind)

Be careful.......

Nailed it! Well done sir and thank you.
 
Long guns are ok via usps. Handguns need an ffl on YOUR end.

Not if you ship via something other than the USPS (handguns). You must be an FFL to ship handguns via the USPS. UPS forces non FFLs and maybe FFLs as well to ship Next Day Air because of theft issues within THEIR system. I am not sure of what companies besides UPS have for their own requirements.

Danny
 
Not if you ship via something other than the USPS (handguns). You must be an FFL to ship handguns via the USPS. UPS forces non FFLs and maybe FFLs as well to ship Next Day Air because of theft issues within THEIR system. I am not sure of what companies besides UPS have for their own requirements.

Danny


Check robertalotto's post on this. Best post that I have seen, Somebody erroneously posted that you need to notify the USPS people that you are sending a rifle to a FFL. Not true. In most states you can send a rifle-shotgun instate without going through a FFL.
 
Not to hi-jack a thread but I like USPS with insurance and tracking. UPS or Fedex can't find their way around rural America. The driver has a smart phone for updating facebook or listening to the classics, but can't use it for google maps. I had a bespoke double gun shipped Fedex once which arrived with a large sharp dent in the right barrel. They had to open a pelican case to make that happen and it encouraged me to never use them again. They can't find a rural route either and will not be great about refunding your overnight shipping funds after they park your package at one of their hubs 130 miles away for 7-8 days.
 

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