shooting the 30 BR match load with 112-118 gr bullets and 6PPC with 65-68 gr match loads which one will drift the least in the same wind??
30BR vrs 6PPC in wind
- Thread starter Eric Leonard
- Start date
Is it April 1st already?
FWIW- The IBS contested a total of (15) 300 yard Score shoot aggs in 2016. Many were multiple aggs (100 +200 +300) or (200 +300) and virtually all competitors used the 30 BR for all the yardages. This tells me that the 30 BR is the most accurate at 300 yards. Score competition is extremely fierce and if a top competitor could gain ANY advantage by using a 6 PPC or 6 BR at the longer range, they would not hesitate to do so.
TonyinKY
Silver $$ Contributor
I think mr. big shoots UBR where there's actually no advantage to shooting a larger caliber like IBS Score. I personally love this level playing field and the X's are 11 points and you can regain a dropped point unlike IBS. You shoots at dots and not 10 rings. To answer his question I personally think the PPC has the advantage at 100 yds but the 30BR has it at 200 where the game is "usually" won.
yes the 30 is accurate but the real reason is the diameter. A 100 yd score target the 10 ring is .500 plus .308 =.808, you get a 10. 308 plus .062 = .370 you get an X. Now when you hit 300 yds. the wind enters the picture and most of the time they can't shoot a 250. Run the numbers on a 105 6mm. bullet and a 112 to 118 30 cal and you will find that the plain old 6br with a 105 will come out on top with equal quality bullets and barrels. There argument is, it's about x's...... right at a 100 you take a sub .1 gun and shoot at a 1/2" 10 ring then it is about x's, but when the wind blows at longer distance it is a different story at 2-300 yds. the higher BC. 6 mm will hold it's own. Look at the groups they are shooting at 600 yds. and they can't go back to the sighter. ..... and don't have field full of flags....... jim
Score shooting you can always go back to your sighter through the match and look at a short range match everybody sets flags, like a sea of pin wheels.At 600, after you sight in thats it, you have to rely on the condition you zeroed in on. Very few flags mostly range flags. On a good day at 600 some groups of sub one inch and aggs. in the high 1's to 2". The 10 ring at 300 score is 1.5"....... jim
yeah this is for UBR where the center of your bullet hole is what counts not the outside edge,,and 95% 100 and 200 yards with maybe 2 matches a year at 200 and 300,,
I love the UBR targets and score system,,
When we started UBR seven years ago the majority of experienced shooters came from IBS. This meant that most of us were shooting 30 BRs to take advantage of the larger hole. As time has moved on, most have moved away from the 30 BR for various reasons such as more expensive bullets, more recoil, etc. The majority are now shooting 6mm bullets, although a few have stayed with the 30 and some few (like myself) have experiemented with .224 calibers. If the 30 showed itself to be more accurate at 2 & 300 yds you can bet that it would be the dominant round. This has not been the case. It takes a bit or research, but you can check and see that most all the records are currently held by a 6mm of one chambering or another. I will also point out that I held the UL 100/200 and the 200 yd agg for 4 years with a 220 Beggs. But on the day I set that record 2nd place went to a 30 BR that was only 1 or 2 points behind me. My personal belief and experience is that the bullet that reaches the target quickest is the better choice, although they all require good wind reading skills.
YMMV,
Rick
YMMV,
Rick
bullet that gets there the quickest?? soon as Greg Tannel gets my Farley bolt done I am gonna try some 62.5 gr 6mm bullets I got from Larry Averitt in a 6BR chamber and try that theory,,
when Greg gets done I will be able to shoot any of the 220 Russian,6.5 Grendel and 6BR case variants that exist,,
when Greg gets done I will be able to shoot any of the 220 Russian,6.5 Grendel and 6BR case variants that exist,,
Strange that if the 30 is so dominate? The IBS 200 - 300 national one shooter shot a 250 at 200 yds. and none at 300. Must of had some wind, and these are some of the best in score shooting. I believe a high BC. 6mm can beat them, if you run the numbers wind drift is half for the 103-106 class 6mm bullet at 300 yds. The 80 gr. BT. 6mm at 3200 may also be a winner at longer ranges and it already proved it self at group..... jim
Well this has been hashed over a hundred times as far as short range IBS score goes. If any 6MM cartridge is better, it would be in use now and it would be dominating 200 and 300 yards. It's not and it never will be the dominate cartridge in IBS score. Some sort of 30 will still reign king of score. Same with SR group. The 6PPC will always be the king of SR IBS group.
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Generally in SR BR, all other things being equal, the shooter that can maintain his rifles "tune" will have the advantage -given the fact the rifle has a good honest barrel. No secret the 30 BR is easier to keep in tune ( so much so that many competitors using the 30 BR pre-load).
You can't win a match without total trust in your gun.....a gun that does not require tweaking the load or cleaning between relays ( 30 BR using coated bullets) eliminates a bunch of variables which go a long way towards this trust. It leaves the shooter to concentrate more on reading conditions and a fractional inch of more wind drift in one chambering vs. another (6 PPC vs. 30 BR) is lost in the noise to a competitor who pays attention to what the target is telling him.
Base your choice on what rifle and shooting technique feels most comfortable and pick the chambering within your recoil tolerance level through an entire agg.
You can't win a match without total trust in your gun.....a gun that does not require tweaking the load or cleaning between relays ( 30 BR using coated bullets) eliminates a bunch of variables which go a long way towards this trust. It leaves the shooter to concentrate more on reading conditions and a fractional inch of more wind drift in one chambering vs. another (6 PPC vs. 30 BR) is lost in the noise to a competitor who pays attention to what the target is telling him.
Base your choice on what rifle and shooting technique feels most comfortable and pick the chambering within your recoil tolerance level through an entire agg.
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Jim,
I believe you are correct that the 6mm is a better choice for longer ranges. It seems that for whatever reason most IBS score shooters don't care to talk about it, but although the 30 BR is a very accurate round, the only reason it dominates IBS score is the size of the hole. The difference in a .308 hole and a .243 hole is obvious. If IBS/NBRSA chose to use a caliber neutral target as UBR, the 6mm and IMO the 224 would move to the head of the line.
Rick
ttfreestyle
Silver $$ Contributor
I started Sr score with a 6br that has 2 mid range cleans (600 yard ) shooting 105 class bullets . After the first match I knew this was not the combo for short range br. On paper it looks to be the way to go but in my limited experience it doesn't seem to work out that way in the matches. Now we shoot 6 ppc in ubr and are thinking of getting a couple 30br barrels for ibs, the good shooters can have any chambering they want and the majority shoot one of these or some variation so that tells me they work. Past 300 now that's a different story I believe.
Some time back, a bullet maker thought that his 58 grain 6mm bullet might have an advantage in the wind as compared to the more usual weights in that caliber. To settle the matter, I suggested a test. Surprisingly, he and some friends did exactly as I suggested. They used various bullet weights and calibers with each rifle tuned as it would be for a match, each with instructions to hold center of target. On a signal, they all shot in what was close to a 3 o'clock wind, and then when the condition was coming from the opposite direction in both cases simultaneously. Afterwords they measured the spread. As it happens, the 58 did not have less drift even though it was going faster at the start. If I remember correctly, the .22 did better than expected, and that generated some discussion on the forum when the results of the test were posted. Another credible example that had shown the same thing (for the .22) was mentioned, which suggests that perhaps the formulas that are used to predict drift may not be as air tight as had been thought, or perhaps the BCs of the bullets were not accurate. It sounds to me like it is time for another test, this time including a typical .30 BR tuned exactly as it would be for a match. I forgot to mention it but I believe that for the original test, all loads were chronographed at the time of the test. Often we guess about what can be tested. IMO, testing is far superior. Oh, and by the way, a friend who owns and shoots both 6PPCs and .30 BRs tells me that the .30s have a little more drift at 200. He has no reason to favor one over the other. Perhaps the fact that the .30 BR lends itself to preloading and the PPC does not, and that IBS score targets give an advantage to the larger caliber, may explain the popularity of the .30. In any case, it is probably a good idea to pay close attention to what winners are using and doing.
If absolute precision matters most, and when you can see your bullet holes to judge holdoff on a well-flagged range, then maybe it makes sense to stick with a 6PPC or 30BR at 300 yards. The record IBS LG and HG group aggregates at 600 yards are right at 0.25 MOA. The record IBS aggregates at 300 yards are 0.28 (SP), 0.19 (LV), and 0.18 (HV).
As far as I can tell, there's never been a clean aggregate score (200, 4x5 shots) shot at 600 yards in IBS registered competition. In contrast, the IBS score record (5x5 shots) at 300 yards is 250-11X.
If somebody cleans house with a Dasher at a 200-300 score shoot, maybe the herd will follow.
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That's why I specifically said SR IBS score. Let's face it, your not going to change anybody's mind in the IBS to use neutral targets. It ain't gonna happen, you know it, I know it and everybody who associated with the IBS knows it. I have no doubt that some 6MM cartridges are better at long distances. As long as they keep those targets that are in use now for IBS short range score, 95% of the time a guy with a 30 is going to win.
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