What is the differance between an F Open 1000yd rifle and a 1000 yd BR Rifle?

[ShootDots]

I think Tom Mousel agged in the 3" range at the IBS National's this year Ben.. I agged 6.9" with a 40th finish.. I wonder if F-class is that competitive over aggs? 17 lbs gun or less


Ray

I don't know Ray.. I know that the rifles would be up to the task. However, whether their loading techniques would be or not, that I can't comment on. Now some of the shooters, given at least one season shooting L/R BR, I believe would. But most F-Class shooters are a dedicated lot to F-Class. How many would crossover I can not say.

I have no doubt that my .260A.I. would be very competitive at 1000. I also know I would not! I think in the hands of a really good Benchrest shooter my rifle would do well, maybe even win!

 

[hoz53]

I don't know Ray.. I know that the rifles would be up to the task. However, whether their loading techniques would be or not, that I can't comment on. Now some of the shooters, given at least one season shooting L/R BR, I believe would. But most F-Class shooters are a dedicated lot to F-Class. How many would crossover I can not say.

I feel fortunate to have this bunch of great shooters answering my question. Thanks Much! You guys have answered alot of my questions. I will get to a match as soon as I can to see first hand what is happening. I think it may be quite a distance to the closet one from me. Even though the benches are crappy I do belong to a 1000 yd range 7 miles from my house though. I thought I would build/get a rifle and start giving it a try. Would like the rifle to be useable in either discipline but if I have to get two more rifles well I guess I could stand it Thanks Again

 

[Raythemanroe]

I don't know Ray.. I know that the rifles would be up to the task. However, whether their loading techniques would be or not, that I can't comment on. Now some of the shooters, given at least one season shooting L/R BR, I believe would. But most F-Class shooters are a dedicated lot to F-Class. How many would crossover I can not say.

I have no doubt that my .260A.I. would be very competitive at 1000. I also know I would not! I think in the hands of a really good Benchrest shooter my rifle would do well, maybe even win!

I know you could cross over.. The major difference is the choices of caliber do to the different requirements.. I think F-Class guns are capable and vise versa..


Ray

 

[NewLiberty]

If you "cross over" can you also use a different bathroom than you used to?

 

[hogpatrol]

If you "cross over" can you also use a different bathroom than you used to?

Not in North Cackalacky.

 

[4xforfun]

One difference I see is in stock design. Most dedicated "F" class rigs have adjustable cheek pieces to get the proper "cheek weld". It is highly undesierable to have ANY cheek weld, or any other kind of weld for that matter, in LRBR. Also, and it may just be me, but for BR I like my ST 1000......it sits "lower" in the bags compared to my MBR Tracker. I am MUCH more comfaratable shooting the MBR in "F" class...it sits higher in the bags and I can get my head in the scope much easier. When I shoot the ST1000 in "F" class I need to build my rear bag up way higher and set the front rest up way higher to get comfy.

Just my .02,

Tod

 

[Raythemanroe]

If you "cross over" can you also use a different bathroom than you used to?

If you require a different bathroom then maybe golf would suit your long range needs..

Ray

 

[hoz53]

They should be able to use our bathroom Ray, we just have to remember to put the lid down for them.

Tom

Well if I get to go help the girls in their bathroom mabie I should look into this crossover stuff. Pretty sure the gun I've got will work over there to

 

[hoz53]

The BR guys shoot mainly 6 Dashers and 300 WSM. Alot of Dashers in the 17 pound class. Mainly because of recoil upsetting the gun and some guys can't handle recoil. Also you can shoot a Dasher faster then a WSM. They both are really accurate and have broken most the records. There was a 6.5x47 broke a couple this year.

A true heavygun weighs usually at least 50 pounds and runs on rails that are attached to the gun. They run on sandbags but the back is run on a mechanical rest for adjustments. They track really good and can usually be shot faster and more accurately. They usually have heavier barrels (1.450), some with brakes but not as many as light guns. The best way to see the difference is go to a shoot. Nothing like hands on and seeing it. Matt

Why is the 300 WSM favored over the 7mm short magnums? Just seems to me a lighter bullet with the same speed and BC would be an advantage. I must be missing something. Thanks

 

[hoz53]

They should be able to use our bathroom Ray, we just have to remember to put the lid down for them.

Tom

It seems like the 284 and variants are favored in F Open these days. Is that right? If so why are they favored over the 30 and 7mm short magnums? Thanks

 

[JFM33]

You can run a heavy gun and brake in LR BR .
If you were shooting F-class 22lbs is max and no brake .
For some it would become a recoil issue shooting a magnum for 20 plus rounds.For three relays per day .That said you will see some doing it.
The 284 seems to be a good balance,high BC bullets and moderate recoil.

Hope that helps John

 

[hoz53]

You can run a heavy gun and brake in LR BR .
If you were shooting F-class 22lbs is max and no brake .
For some it would become a recoil issue shooting a magnum for 20 plus rounds.For three relays per day .That said you will see some doing it.
The 284 seems to be a good balance,high BC bullets and moderate recoil.

Hope that helps John

Hi John-thanks that does help

 

[bobinpa]

You can run a heavy gun and brake in LR BR .
If you were shooting F-class 22lbs is max and no brake .
For some it would become a recoil issue shooting a magnum for 20 plus rounds.For three relays per day .That said you will see some doing it.
The 284 seems to be a good balance,high BC bullets and moderate recoil.

Hope that helps John

Why can't you use a brake?

 

[Alex Wheeler]

The rifles are very similar. If you want to shoot both, build a 17lb gun on a 3" stock, dual port dasher. You, will have fun in both. I am sure you will prefer one over the other and decide which way to go from there. Recoil is a concern. In f open the 284 seems to be the best compromise or recoil, ballistics, and accuracy. In br recoil and accuracy take priority. In br you need to be able to shoot quickly with the most accurate possible cartridge. 2-3" 5 shoot groups are pretty common for the top shooters. In f-open you need to be able to hold up over long strings in hot weather in the prone. Changing conditions and the shooters possition make recoil and ballistics even more important. So, its ok to give up a little raw accuracy for better bc. But theres a limit before recoil takes its toll, so thats why we see the 284 so much.

 

[ShootDots]

It seems like the 284 and variants are favored in F Open these days. Is that right? If so why are they favored over the 30 and 7mm short magnums? Thanks

I think I can help you with this answer. When they "found" the 7 SAUM, as an F-Open cartridge, most shooters were using H4350, pushing 180 VLD's to "about" 2950. This was a recipe for very short barrel life. Accuracy was great, e.s.'s were great, scores were great BUT replacing barrels every time you turned around, not so good. It has been recently found that by running slower powders you can substantially increase barrel life. Even with the increase in barrel life, you are still looking at about 1500-1600 rounds. A .284 will go right at 2000.. That's a solid 20 percent longer barrel life. Having said that, I believe that now that there are a plethora of newer slower powders, the SAUM will once again be looked at favorably! AND if you consider that using the new Berger 195 at around 2840 will completely outclass ANY 284 shooting the 180 Hybrids / VLD's, I guarantee you it will be looked at again! This is my opinion anyhow. Time will let us know if I am correct or not.. But do not be under the wrong impression, a .284 is still a MIGHTY F-Open rifle, especially at 1000 yards.

 

[hoz53]

Why can't you use a brake?

My understanding is that is the rule

 

[BoydAllen]

I have started working with one of the second generation McMillan F-Open stocks. You may have read the little introductory piece that was published in the Bulletin. I have been thinking about what it would take to make it into a 1,000 yd. light rifle. Essentially the main issues are the differences in weight between the 22# that F Class allows, and the 17# limit for a 1,000yd bench rifle, and the forend width. The difference in the usual caliber selections for each can be handled with a barrel swap. If push comes to shove, I can do a couple of things to the existing stock to lighten it. I can pull out the movable parts of the adjustable butt and substitute lighter parts that do not adjust, and I can remove most of the adjustable cheek piece and its mechanism, since I would probably be keeping my face off of the comb for bench use. Then there is the issue of forend width. Benchrest is pretty much a run what you want proposition, while F Class is limited to a few thousandths under 3 inches. The first thing that I would do is to try shooting it as a Dasher, as is, and then if I thought that a wider forend would help, I would have Alex Wheeler make me a pretty polished adapter plate, with rails on the underside, secured with T nuts in the bottom of the barrel channel, thin to keep things close to the barrel, with some tracking adjustability (one hole slightly slotted) built in.

 

[bobinpa]

My understanding is that is the rule

Thanks, but I was looking for the logic behind that rule.

 

[hoz53]

Thanks, but I was looking for the logic behind that rule.

Yes Sorry about that. I of coarse dont know that. All I know is some of those brakes are way LOUDer than normal

 

[savagedasher]

Yes Sorry about that. I of coarse dont know that. All I know is some of those brakes are way LOUDer than normal

Wouldn't you like to be on ground and have the blast of sand in your face .
That would seem like why I would think they are not allowed. Larry