Making neck sizer dies

[hogpatrol]

Can I use my chamber reamer to convert a full length bushing die to a neck sizer bushing die? Are there any pros and cons I should think about before I get started? It seems that I can't find a 6.5 Grendel neck sizer die for my bolt gun.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/268803/redding-2-die-neck-sizer-set-65-grendel

 

[WSnyder]

You brass will only get scratches if you do a terrible job of cutting your die. The PTG die blank steel is pretty hard, hard enough to last a lifetime but don't drop it, it will dent.

Not in my experience, that is with Newlon blanks and of course I would expect scratches if I did a terrible job but that is not the case. I haven't used a PTG blank. Have you actually made a size die with a PTG blank, not hardened or treated, used it and not experienced any scratching of the brass?

 

[jfseaman]

You are wrong.

Please explain.

 

[jfseaman]

Everything is theory until proven. It then becomes fact.

How much "fact"?

Do I have to shove a working die up your nose.

 

[jfseaman]

Why does this thread have so many tolls?

 

[jfseaman]

Not in my experience, that is with Newlon blanks and of course I would expect scratches if I did a terrible job but that is not the case. I haven't used a PTG blank. Have you actually made a size die with a PTG blank, not hardened or treated, used it and not experienced any scratching of the brass?

Yes, I have made a die with a PTG blank, used it and not gotten scratches. PTG resize reamer. Very shiny inside the die. Cleaned it, like I would a barrel. Prelubed with my resize lube. Sized some brass. Very nice. Perfect neck, no expander ball needed.

I made some bushing inserts for my pbike257 "Wildcatters Setback Die" set, down to .17. I make my expanders for Sinclair and for the "Wildcatters". Including one for expanding necks on my 50 DTC, double step expanders, as in: 264 to 277 to 284. Then I anneal and I can go 308 to 323 to 338. Anneal and shoot.

If you made a die from a resize reamer and it scratches you brass, you did a poor job regardless of whether it was hardened before use.

Or maybe you need to try a different resize lube.

 

[jfseaman]

I have an outstanding project to make more dies.

 

[hoz53]

I have an outstanding project to make more dies.

What type steel (#) are and should be used to make dies with?

 

[hogpatrol]

What type steel (#) are and should be used to make dies with?

I haven't a clue to what the major manufacturers use but in one shop I worked in, for our "government job" dies, we used whatever was in the scrap pan, O2 or A2 and then heat treated them as required. They functioned like the store bought brands.

 

[Eddie Harren]

Why does this thread have so many tolls?

Because you have posted so much "dis-information".

 

[jfseaman]

Because you have posted so much "dis-information".

Troll warning. Eddie Harren seems more interested in having an argument than providing useful information.

 

[butchlambert]

Troll warning. Eddie Harren seems more interested in having an argument than providing useful information.

Mr. semen,
Mr Harren has forgotten much more than you will ever learn. He knows a "TOLL" when he sees one.
I see that you claimed to have made a die and know why they can scratch. The vast majority of scratches on brass comes from trash embedded in soft "not hardened" dies. People that make dies chamfer the mouth of their dies. Maybe you didn't but saw your mistake.

 

[jfseaman]

What type steel (#) are and should be used to make dies with?

There are of course many steel recipes that could be used. PTG die blanks are 4140, "Barrel Steel" or "Ordnance Steel". I use old barrels and barrel cut-offs to make lots of the inserts. I order rod for expanders from http://www.onlinemetals.com/ For experiments I might use some 1020 cold rolled from the hardware store.

If things get really serious I'll get some stainless. Which one depends on what I am doing.

I also like O1 tool steel. I make firing pins for mid 1800's guns from this when needed. Hardening is simple heat and oil quench.

 

[jfseaman]

Mr. semen,
Mr Harren has forgotten much more than you will ever learn. He knows a "TOLL" when he sees one.
I see that you claimed to have made a die and know why they can scratch. The vast majority of scratches on brass comes from trash embedded in soft "not hardened" dies. People that make dies chamfer the mouth of their dies. Maybe you didn't but saw your mistake.

Another troll. More interested in arguing and attempting to point out faults of others than provide information.

Your statement that Mr. Harren has forgotten more than I will ever learn lacks supporting information. Look up internet troll. If Mr. Harren was so knowledgeable than he should dig up some of what he forgot and share it. He did not do that. Ergo troll

Neither did you, ergo troll.

Trash embedded in in "soft" "not hardened" dies is a user problem not a problem of making a die. Clean your dies like you should and you won't get "trash" in them to scratch your brass. Trash in a hardened die will scratch just as bad.

 

[dmoran]

@jfseaman

Would like to see pictures of these non-hardened dies and inserts you've made.
Thanks
Donovan

 

[jfseaman]

@jfseaman

Would like to see pictures of these non-hardened dies and inserts you've made.
Thanks
Donovan

Are you daring me to prove it or are you serious?

 

[jfseaman]

What do get if I go to the trouble of getting my phone, going out to the shop. Staging a picture with some of the stuff I've made. Sending it to my email. Uploading it here. Basically 1/2 hour of work.

What's in it for me?

 

[jfseaman]

You mean something like this. I don't have the necking inserts in this picture because I had not made them yet. They are for sizing 5.7x28FN down to .20 and .17 while maintaining the same shoulder angle. The PTG blank that was reamed to 338/26-Nosler is also not in the picture as it is in the press.

The "Tapered Body Expander" is setup to fit inside a 300 RUM case (R-P) and straighten it for 50WSM. The taper matches the brass inside diameter as it thickens toward the base. Then I used my 300 WSM seater to set the bullet.

The difference between y'all and me is I know this is not something I would put on the shelf at Bass Pro. It's for me, just like the "Original Poster" OP asked about.

 

[jfseaman]

@butchlambert and @Eddie Harren probably meant to provide information by neglected to.

I'll take a stab at what I think they might have said:

• "A note about unhardened dies, if you don't clean them, dirt and debris can collect and embed in the surface. This may cause vertical scratching of the brass. So, I suggest cleaning and checking your unhardened dies frequently or harden them per instructions provided by the die blank maker or steel provider."

• "After reaming your dies, be sure to chamfer and polish the die mouth. Failure to do this will make your die a brass razor (LOL)."

 

[WSnyder]

I'll keep the PTG dies in mind. To expand upon my previous comments. When I say scratching I am not referring to any large scratching. Once again I do not feel like I did a poor job as alluded to and yes my dies were chamfered and polished. What I and others have experienced is a light linear scratching that resembles a light frosted surface. It does no real harm and will work. The other thing I felt was the sizing effort was more on the unhardened die than the same die that was hardened or melonited.

I think the reason people are skeptical of your results is because so many have been down this road (I am specifically referring to unhardened, untreated full length sizing dies not bushings, expanders, etc...) and your results are contrary to what they have experienced. I'll take your results and keep them in mind. I am not above trying something and seeing if it works or not. As I said I have not used a PTG or 4140 so maybe the results are better with those.