Looking for something slightly faster than H4350...

[XTR]

I'm looking for a powder that will provide the consistency of H4350, the same kind of ES numbers, that is slightly faster, with out increasing volume. So in round numbers what I'm looking for is a powder to give a similar pressure and velocity of say 50 grains of H4350 but with slightly less volume of powder as H4350. (think of something that is like a really fast lot of H4350)

I had a good load worked up that was right at 100% fill last yr.... Got a new lot of H4350 and oops, now I need nearly a grain more to keep the same MV, but the case is out of volume.

I'm dabbling with N150 right now but it seems to be a bit less dense. It can get to the velocity with less weight, but it seems to take about the same volume, which translates to just a bit too much to get to where I want to be.

Re16 seems to be in the right pressure range but it takes more volume, so it won't work.

Any other ideas?

 

[savagedasher]

I'm looking for a powder that will provide the consistency of H4350, the same kind of ES numbers, that is slightly faster, with out increasing volume. So in round numbers what I'm looking for is a powder to give a similar pressure and velocity of say 50 grains of H4350 but with slightly less volume of powder as H4350. (think of something that is like a really fast lot of H4350)

I had a good load worked up that was right at 100% fill last yr.... Got a new lot of H4350 and oops, now I need nearly a grain more to keep the same MV, but the case is out of volume.

I'm dabbling with N150 right now but it seems to be a bit less dense. It can get to the velocity with less weight, but it seems to take about the same volume, which translates to just a bit too much to get to where I want to be.

Re16 seems to be in the right pressure range but it takes more volume, so it won't work.

Any other ideas?

Without knowing what your loading .
But in my dasher I loaded N 550 and W760 I had more speed but that change extremely with temepture .
It sound like you could have throat Change in your barrel . Larry

 

[RonAKA]

I'm looking for a powder that will provide the consistency of H4350, the same kind of ES numbers, that is slightly faster, with out increasing volume. So in round numbers what I'm looking for is a powder to give a similar pressure and velocity of say 50 grains of H4350 but with slightly less volume of powder as H4350. (think of something that is like a really fast lot of H4350)

I had a good load worked up that was right at 100% fill last yr.... Got a new lot of H4350 and oops, now I need nearly a grain more to keep the same MV, but the case is out of volume.

I'm dabbling with N150 right now but it seems to be a bit less dense. It can get to the velocity with less weight, but it seems to take about the same volume, which translates to just a bit too much to get to where I want to be.

Re16 seems to be in the right pressure range but it takes more volume, so it won't work.

Any other ideas?

IMR 4350? VV N540?

This Norma Burn Rate chart seems to differ somewhat from the VV and Hodgdon ones and my give you some ideas. It is based on an interesting concept of setting IMR 4350 at 100% velocity and pressure in a .308, and then comparing what other powders do relative to that.

 

[gunmutt]

Compressed loads tend to be more consistent. nothing wrong with a 105% fill. just work up to it

 

[dmoran]

I'm looking for a powder that will provide the consistency of H4350, the same kind of ES numbers, that is slightly faster, with out increasing volume. So in round numbers what I'm looking for is a powder to give a similar pressure and velocity of say 50 grains of H4350 but with slightly less volume of powder as H4350. (think of something that is like a really fast lot of H4350)

I had a good load worked up that was right at 100% fill last yr.... Got a new lot of H4350 and oops, now I need nearly a grain more to keep the same MV, but the case is out of volume.

I'm dabbling with N150 right now but it seems to be a bit less dense. It can get to the velocity with less weight, but it seems to take about the same volume, which translates to just a bit too much to get to where I want to be.

Re16 seems to be in the right pressure range but it takes more volume, so it won't work.

Any other ideas?

Have experienced lot variations with H4350 similar to your report myself as well (worse one was +75-fps of variation grain for grain). Could try the new IMR4166 Enduron, for a slightly faster powder and lower case fill.
Good Luck
Donovan

 

[savagedasher]

Compressed loads tend to be more consistent. nothing wrong with a 105% fill. just work up to it

My target loads I want the cases to be 101% plus full .
My dasher cases are 108% full and my ES are in the small single numbers Larry

 

[XTR]

I'm OK with slight crunch, but I can't get 50+ grains in a 308 case and still have room for a bullet.

I lost right at 80FPS with the lot change

Edit: This is a competition load. It needs to work at 72F and 92F so the double based 5## series powders are out. My have to try 4166.

 

[dmoran]

My target loads I want the cases to be 101% plus full .
My dasher cases are 108% full and my ES are in the small single numbers Larry

And so do others with far less load density. Your amount of load density has nothing to do with your ES.
It is a coincidental aspect of the charge used, that has nothing to do with accomplishing lower ES.

In fact most all the current 6Dasher held World Records and the most winning powders used in 6Dasher's to national competitions across the country are H4895, Varget, & RL15 from charges of far less load density.
Donovan

 

[SheepDog]

Load density is calculated by weight and not volume. If a case holds 50 grains of water then a 50 grain charge of powder is 100% load density. Smokeless powders typically are denser than water so it is easy to get load densities over 100% and still not fill the case volume.

 

[John Russell]

I'm looking for a powder that will provide the consistency of H4350, the same kind of ES numbers, that is slightly faster, with out increasing volume. So in round numbers what I'm looking for is a powder to give a similar pressure and velocity of say 50 grains of H4350 but with slightly less volume of powder as H4350. (think of something that is like a really fast lot of H4350)

I had a good load worked up that was right at 100% fill last yr.... Got a new lot of H4350 and oops, now I need nearly a grain more to keep the same MV, but the case is out of volume.

I'm dabbling with N150 right now but it seems to be a bit less dense. It can get to the velocity with less weight, but it seems to take about the same volume, which translates to just a bit too much to get to where I want to be.

Re16 seems to be in the right pressure range but it takes more volume, so it won't work.

Any other ideas?

Use a long drop tube - it'll give you more than enough space and it is easy peasy... and no load change.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/293879/forster-blue-ribbon-powder-funnel-with-long-drop-tube

 

[SeabeeKen]

Have you tried accurate 4350? Very similar burn rate

 

[savagedasher]

Have you tried accurate 4350? Very similar burn rate

I haven't . I still have 4 un opean 8 # left
Larry

 

[XTR]

Use a long drop tube - it'll give you more than enough space and it is easy peasy... and no load change.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/293879/forster-blue-ribbon-powder-funnel-with-long-drop-tube

I've been using a 36" brass drop tube from my BPCR loading. I don't think that little thing is going to help much.

 

[lurcher]

Is the new RL16 slightly faster I think the early reports are that it is?

 

[Ned Ludd]

Wade - You're looking for something right in the middle of the burn rate chart "black hole". Don't get too close to the event horizon.

 

[XTR]

Is the new RL16 slightly faster I think the early reports are that it is?

It is, but the reports I have are that it is less dense so if you are already loading to case max it won't help you.

Wade - You're looking for something right in the middle of the burn rate chart "black hole". Don't get too close to the event horizon.

Yep... LOL

 

[kyreloader]

IMR 4451.

 

[ShootDots]

If you can get your hands on some of the "old" IMR 4007 powder (I know there was a recall) I believe that would fill your bill to a tee!

 

[SheepDog]

There is another way to settle the powder charge in a compressed load. What I have done in the past is to use lead wire slightly smaller in diameter than a bullet and place the lead in the mouth of the case while resting the base on a vibratory case cleaner. You can watch the load settle in as the lead drops. Don't try it without the weight - powder gets flung everywhere.

 

[normmatzen]

I have switched to RL-17 for my 284 WIN F Class gun. I am in the process of trying RL-16 in hopes it is more temp stable.

To that end, here is some QuickLoad data on RL-16, RL-17 and H4350.
All three loads are within 6 fps of Mv around 2918 fps with 162 gr bullets in a 28.75" barrel.

Powder Weight fill
RL-16 51.7gr 96.3%
RL-17 51.7gr 89.4%
H4350 53.3gr 98.3%

THESE ARE NOT LOAD RECOMMENDATIONS, JUST RELATIVE DATA!