CMP Response to F-class Electronic Targets Issues.

[Berger.Fan222]

His arrogance is well out there.
He has shown it on plenty of forums. Well known and respected shooters have tried to help and give advice and to no avail except for those people to be degraded by him.

No doubt the CMP COO Mark Johnson is an arrogant fellow who had been very slow to listen to feedback and fix the inherent problems with the electronic targets. Mark Johnson (COO) has a track record of degrading people here and on other forums.

But the match director, Ed Tyler, is working for free, and has been very receptive to advice from match participants. The long term goal is an NRA compliant event, but shooters in attendance have been in unanimous or nearly unanimous agreement that events should not be put on hold until NRA compliance can be achieved. You'll be hard pressed to find an incident of Ed Tyler degrading anyone.

There has been some lack of volunteers and officers to do the hard work of getting the organization up and running, so Ed is still doing most of the work himself. CMP has stalled improving the target situation, so Ed's choices have come down to holding the matches with existing target faces or waiting until CMP changes their minds. Everyone wants to tell Ed how to do it, but no one wants to help, and Ed is doing the best he can with all the CMP target issues.

 

[MattPeetz]

No doubt the CMP COO Mark Johnson is an arrogant fellow who had been very slow to listen to feedback and fix the inherent problems with the electronic targets. Mark Johnson (COO) has a track record of degrading people here and on other forums.

But the match director, Ed Tyler, is working for free, and has been very receptive to advice from match participants. The long term goal is an NRA compliant event, but shooters in attendance have been in unanimous or nearly unanimous agreement that events should not be put on hold until NRA compliance can be achieved. You'll be hard pressed to find an incident of Ed Tyler degrading anyone.

There has been some lack of volunteers and officers to do the hard work of getting the organization up and running, so Ed is still doing most of the work himself. CMP has stalled improving the target situation, so Ed's choices have come down to holding the matches with existing target faces or waiting until CMP changes their minds. Everyone wants to tell Ed how to do it, but no one wants to help, and Ed is doing the best he can with all the CMP target issues.

You need to expand your eyes. Not just on accurate shooter. Fairly easy to see Ed demeaning top shooters.
Ed may have an up hill battle but he should rethink on how he talks to people or just forget about the cmp and leave and let them sink.

 

[Berger.Fan222]

You need to expand your eyes. Not just on accurate shooter. Fairly easy to see Ed demeaning top shooters.
Ed may have an up hill battle but he should rethink on how he talks to people or just forget about the cmp and leave and let them sink.

Links?

I read a bunch of forums and I haven't seen it.

I was at the matches, and I did not see Ed demean anyone.

This was in stark contrast to CMP staff who were rolling their eyes and blaming the shooters every time something went wrong.

Ed is a true southern gentlemen who is working hard to put together a match that provides what many real Alabama (and nearby) shooters are looking for in spite of being dealt a bad hand by CMP. The inability to begin the matches in a timely manner if securing NRA approval or target faces may have ruffled some feathers of the national elites, because it may be a while before CMP can provide them. Starting the matches without target faces was a unanimous decision of participants, not a unilateral decision by Ed.

It is an unreasonable expectation to compare the Alabama match with the best in the country being run by folks with many years of experience and a much larger budget than Ed is working with. Compared with the other matches in Alabama, Ed had done a remarkable job in a short time. But CMP has a near monopoly on 600 ranges in Alabama, and anyone trying to host an F-Class match there has to work with their limitations.

 

[DRNewcomb]

That was my point. Glad you caught it.

I sort of suspected some attempt at irony but smileys are also helpful for those of us who may be history challenged.

 

[mahalan]

No doubt the CMP COO Mark Johnson is an arrogant fellow who had been very slow to listen to feedback and fix the inherent problems with the electronic targets. Mark Johnson (COO) has a track record of degrading people here and on other forums.

But the match director, Ed Tyler, is working for free, and has been very receptive to advice from match participants. The long term goal is an NRA compliant event, but shooters in attendance have been in unanimous or nearly unanimous agreement that events should not be put on hold until NRA compliance can be achieved. You'll be hard pressed to find an incident of Ed Tyler degrading anyone.

There has been some lack of volunteers and officers to do the hard work of getting the organization up and running, so Ed is still doing most of the work himself. CMP has stalled improving the target situation, so Ed's choices have come down to holding the matches with existing target faces or waiting until CMP changes their minds. Everyone wants to tell Ed how to do it, but no one wants to help, and Ed is doing the best he can with all the CMP target issues.

In my opinion, people should be very hesitant to criticize someone who's volunteering their time to promote and expand our opportunities to participate in a sport we love. Is Ed doing everything each of us would do if we were in his position? Of course not. Then again, he's the one volunteering his time and effort - not us.

I'm grateful Talladega's an option for us F class shooters. That said, I'm one of the many F class shooters using a fine cross hair reticle and who holds off rather than dials. Since I'm still building my foundation of good habits, I'm very hesitant to add new variables into the mix. This means I'm more willing to drive an hour or two further to attend a NRA sanctioned match in Tennessee than to alter my shooting routine or my scope to regularly shoot matches at Talladega. It's a moderate loss for me and a negligible one for the CMP.

I've offered to help in any way I can. With regard to the significant problems they've faced, there's not much I could've offered. That said, I've worked building complex software models and programs for the financial industry for more than 25 years. It'd be pretty easy to put together something that would either accept a data dump or allow input of shooters, scores, classifications, categories, etc. so that at the end of the match string and match winners would be instantly available. From what I've seen at matches something like this would be useful, save time, and prevent errors. Even though I'd be happy to do it for free, there's apparently no interest. I guess it's either not as useful as I imagine or peoples' attention is on more important problems.

If I'm wrong about the above assumption and you're involved in matches somewhere, contact me and I'll be happy to work with you designing and developing something for you. It's the least I can do to contribute something to a sport I love.

 

[dannyjbiggs]

the ranges we frequent,]

Other than the CMP range, what ranges do you frequent that are conducting NRA affiliated F-Class matches?

Dan

 

[Berger.Fan222]

Depends on what you mean by frequent. I travel a lot along the I-10 and I-20 corridors between Houston/Dallas and Jacksonville/Atlanta. With the amount of travel I don't get to many ranges more than twice a year. Talladega is in a particularly convenient spot.

The 2016-2017 schedules I've asked about are:

GTGC, Palo Alto, Bayou Rifles, Pascagoula, MidSouth, Bar 3 Range, River Bend, Talladega, Chattanooga, Oak Ridge, Central Alabama, Blue and Gray, PCGC, and Reese

http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/lets-see-some-2017-match-schedules.3912880/

 

[dannyjbiggs]

Depends on what you mean by frequent. I travel a lot along the I-10 and I-20 corridors between Houston/Dallas and Jacksonville/Atlanta. With the amount of travel I don't get to many ranges more than twice a year. Talladega is in a particularly convenient spot.

The 2016-2017 schedules I've asked about are:

GTGC, Palo Alto, Bayou Rifles, Pascagoula, MidSouth, Bar 3 Range, River Bend, Talladega, Chattanooga, Oak Ridge, Central Alabama, Blue and Gray, PCGC, and Reese

http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/lets-see-some-2017-match-schedules.3912880/

You being a Berger fan, I'd like to urge you to consider extending a westward trek along the I-10 corridor to attend the "Berger Bullets Southwest Nationals" to be held at the Ben Avery 1000-yard range in north Phoenix, 6 to 12 Feb 2017. It would probably be the best F-Class match experience of your life. And, bring along your buddies...bring along a 4-man F-Open team...because we grand seniors on Team Berger/SEB/Bartlein would sure like to get a measure of you.

Dan

 

[Berger.Fan222]

You being a Berger fan, I'd like to urge you to consider extending a westward trek along the I-10 corridor to attend the "Berger Bullets Southwest Nationals" to be held at the Ben Avery 1000-yard range in north Phoenix, 6 to 12 Feb 2017. It would probably be the best F-Class match experience of your life. And, bring along your buddies...bring along a 4-man F-Open team...because we grand seniors on Team Berger/SEB/Bartlein would sure like to get a measure of you.

Dan

That's a very gracious invitation. I'll start discussing a possible road trip on my end. No doubt you guys will beat us, but it would be fun and one always learns more by losing to the best. I always wanted to do a team match.

The guys I shoot with are good ole boys. We won't even begin to hold a candle to real national competitors in F-Class. On a good day most of us will creep into the mid 190s at Mid-Range, but I don't think we've even all shot enough at 1000 yards to earn a classification or contend for a state Championship, much less compete with you guys. Some of the crew is already talking about equipping up for AR Tactical rather than sticking with F-Class. Rednecks, but good guys.

 

[Bob Sebold]

Berger.fan222,

Don't worry about losing! Most of us loose all the time. Some of us loose most of the time. There are no others! The match Danny is talking about is at the best long range facility in the country, maybe the world! It is run by the best people and it is run in Phoenix in February. You just can not beet that combo with a stick. No matter what, you will have a good time and learn more about shooting and F Class. My rocket scientist buddy, Litz, puts on a really good clinic as well. I can guarantee you will not be disappointed. Just don't expect to win. If you can get over that your home free. Besides those guys on team Berger are all over the hill!!! Love you Danny. Larry Bart for president, only because I think Bev would make a great first Lady!

 

[243Mendoza]

... but I don't think we've even all shot enough at 1000 yards to earn a classification or contend for a state Championship, much less compete with you guys. ...

I think that not having a classification for long range may put you in Unclassified Master so you would not be shooting with the High Masters.

 

[Jay Christopherson]

I think that not having a classification for long range may put you in Unclassified Master so you would not be shooting with the High Masters.

Heh, and as was proven in this past Nationals, classification isn't everything... those dang sand-bagging Experts! (j/k)

 

[Ned Ludd]

Heh, and as was proven in this past Nationals, classification isn't everything... those dang sand-bagging Experts! (j/k)

I'm sure that performance wasn't easy. They spent years lulling the Masters/High Masters into a sense of false security .

 

[Lbart]

Berger.fan222,
Snip....
Besides those guys on team Berger are all over the hill!!! Love you Danny. Larry Bart for president, only because I think Bev would make a great first Lady!

Bob-
Bev says she doesn't want to be first lady, she wants to be president! So I'll have to decline the nomination
BergerFan.222-
The Berger SWN's should be at the top of your Bucket List!

 

[Ringostar]

Bob-
Bev says she doesn't want to be first lady, she wants to be president! So I'll have to decline the nomination
BergerFan.222-
The Berger SWN's should be at the top of your Bucket List!

Bev for pres 2020!! It's about time we get another from Texas.

 

[Erud]

I once got a free 12 pack of Pepsi from Bob Sebold in the parking lot of the Berger Southwest Nationals. It was one of the greatest moments of my shooting career.

 

[johnfred1965]

I once got a free 12 pack of Pepsi from Bob Sebold in the parking lot of the Berger Southwest Nationals. It was one of the greatest moments of my shooting career.

Yeah, I love shooting sodas that have been sitting out in the hot desert sun. Gives new meaning to the word PoP!

 

[Mozella]

........ snip...............

Ed is a true southern gentlemen ................... snip................

Well, not in my experience. Yes, anyone who volunteers to work hard to further our sport deserves credit and I give Ed full credit for putting together the match, flawed as is was. But that's not the end of the story.

After the match was cancelled, the last thing Ed told me (and the three shooters with me) before we started the long drive home was that he would be certain to refund our match fees, but it might take him a week or two to get the check in the mail. So far, he hasn't lived up to his promise.

I heard from a competitor who stayed later that someone, I'm not sure who, decided to keep the entrance fees and give it to a sick friend. I am a charitable person, but I don't like the idea of someone deciding where my donations should go without asking me or even notifying me. I have no idea who the sick individual is and although I wish him well, I would prefer to donate my money to a person or charity of my choosing.

I've been a Southerner all my life and I would say that taking the entry fees without permission is not the action of a Southern gentleman. Attending the match for those who drove long distances was a significant financial burden. Couple that with the complete failure of the target system and the smug and condescending attitude of the range operators, and the weekend wold have to be considered pretty disappointing. I though it couldn't get any worse, but promising to refund the entry fee and then reneging on that promise is not the way to win friends.

 

[lal357]

hey berger.fan222 reese bottom is having thier last 600yd fclass match this saturday sign up is 8am shooting starts 9 am i'm looking forward to shooting in ftr with a friend of mine

 

[Ed Tyler]

Well...when Ed Tyler sought me out back in March this year to lend my name to the promotion of F-Class competition at his facility, I fully explained why I was not willing to do it with the system he had, and current NRA F-Class rules.

Dan

Dann, I did ask if you would help us promote the F-Class competitions at the range and you did decline. I have asked several high ranking F-Class competitors to visit the range in and shoot in one of the matches. Each request was accompanied by a polite rejection.

Since the top ranking F-Class shooters have rejected an opportunity to compete on the CMP range, your input does not currently carry much weight. The range serves those that shoot on the range. Everyone states that they would come shoot if ...... but not now. If changes are to be made they will be made to suit those that are competing on the range. I would love to have the clout of some national level shooters, shooters that have come to the range and made suggestions on how to improve the F-Class experience but, most have declined I would suggest that you read or re-read the letter from CMP about F-Class competitions.