Primer Diagnosis Help Needed

[savagedasher]

I am one of those guys who likes to see the issue from the beginning, rather than part way thru. Kinda like the guy who brings the gun, in pieces, to the gunsmith and asks him to see why it wont shoot. It is much easier to start the diagnosis with a whole gun. I would prefer to start by looking at brass with the primers still intact. Do they appear flattened and level with the case head? Do they protrude a little? Where is primer blown in relation to extractor marks or ejector marks? Do you have any cases that have not had primers removed?

If primers just fell out, you have enlarged primer pockets due to your load being WAY over pressure.

Steve

Problems are fix backwards . Many don't understand . Smile Larry

 

[Ggmac]

Did you chamfer the flash hole ? It looks like it . If you did this could significantly increase the primer pressure .
I'd reduce loads ! No book or program can determine what your gun can handle !

 

[Fast14riot]

Mike, This may help explain some of your primer questions. .......... Google: Rifle primer chart. Of all the "big four" American primer mfgs. the Federal (lg. rifle) primer has the largest diameter. Cup thickness for lg. primers is universal for American primers................ I don't know the day to day ability of the Mfg.'s to hold these tolerances. So, powder brake may have good advise. .................. You said your brass was Federal yet those pictured are Remington +1 for Boyd & Sniper338

The cartridge is 25-06 Rem, brass has FC stamp opposite it.

 

[ireload2]

Try some of the same primers in a different rifle in a different caliber.
If they continue with the pin holes in the radius you have a bad lot of primers and it has nothing to do with the 25-06.

 

[savagedasher]

Try some of the same primers in a different rifle in a different caliber.
If they continue with the pin holes in the radius you have a bad lot of primers and it has nothing to do with the 25-06.

Just takes primer and see if it fits tight. Stop guessing. Larry

 

[jpx2rk]

Not to derail this thread, but would someone point me in the right direction on what you guys mean about "supporting the primer", or no primer support ?

 

[savagedasher]

Not to derail this thread, but would someone point me in the right direction on what you guys mean about "supporting the primer", or no primer support ?

I asume the are talking about primer pockets depth. Larry

 

[dkhunt14]

I assumed loose pockets from hot loads and soft brass. Matt

 

[savagedasher]

I assumed loose pockets from hot loads and soft brass. Matt

Matt
We have no idea on the brass.
First thing I would do is see if the primer was tight . Larry

 

[25-06 Mike]

Thanks a million all for your interest,

Hope one day I may be of help to anyone of you.
For what it may be worth I have some experience reloading for a Sako 243 Winchester and a 300 WBY Mark V with which I managed to get 1" groups at 200 yds with the older Nosler Solid base 168 gr using IMR7828.

For some reason I just cannot get this lovely B78 to shoot decently.
I should clear I had since stopped reloading this 54gr loads, I backed to 53.5 grains and never had this problem since, however accuracy and speed are not all that great.
The 54gr load with the 110gr Accu-Bonds' averaged 3,050 fps from a 26" barrel, which makes me suspect this load might not be as hot.

Regarding Resizing I should clear to "BoydAllen" that Initial measurements are taken from cases that have 3 reloads from this particular rifle, thus I feel they reflect actual chamber measurements once fired. I then proceed to neck size and barely bump the shoulder using a Forster FL die.
I use a Sinclair bump gauge insert to measure from head to shoulder, and then back the shoulder a mere 0.001", cases are not long, they are 0.010" short of SAAMI specs.

As far as I have been able to tell I am 0.010" from the lands, I also use a Sinclair bullet comparator for this purpose,
Regarding the cases shown in the pic Oops sorry they are indeed Remington Brass.

Also for " Shaggy357" here is a pic of a 54 gr loads fired with primers still in the case, as far as I can tell the rest of the primers don't look flattened, this is Winchester brass.
The other pic also shows unfired rounds, these are 53.5 gr loads, which did not show any problems with the same lot of primers.
In total I had 3 instances with the same lot of primers, I don't use that lot anymore and as mentioned since have backed on the powder.

Don't know where to go from here, should I try some IMR7828, or IMR 4350, have plenty of both.

Again thanks all for your valuable input.

 

[M-61]

From post# 30 ...25-06 Mike
"Regarding the cases shown in the pic Oops sorry they are indeed Remington Brass."

I'm trying to follow this but your first pics are FEDERAL brass.
I may have this wrong but I see NO pics that show Remington brass at all.

 

[25-06 Mike]

Had me doubting for a sec there, the first pics ARE from Federal Brass, the REM stands for 25-06 REM
I then switched to Winchester Brass since I've used it extensively, however ended up with one blown primer with the same 54gr load, WITH the same lot of primers.

Thanks for clearing this out M-61 !!

 

[RonAKA]

Don't know where to go from here, should I try some IMR7828, or IMR 4350, have plenty of both.

View attachment 993251

It sounds to me that you are doing all the right things to control headspace. For powder to get the same velocity with less pressure, I would go slower. IMR7828 would be better than the 4350. However, it is only a touch slower than RL22. You may have better luck with the Retumbo which is slower still. The Nosler Load Data shows the best velocities for the 110 bullet with Retumbo. So you should have the best chance to get your velocity with lower pressure.

Perhaps it is just the picture distorting the appearance, but those primers seem a touch low to me??

 

[M-61]

From RonAKA:

"Perhaps it is just the picture distorting the appearance, but those primers seem a touch low to me??"

I agree now that you pointed it out in fact looks like more than a 'touch' low. Yet are at the 'correct' height after being fired. Maybe it is the pic, but in the one above it the one primer looks like it was 'epoxied' in.
But I could be picking on pics I am not even capable of taking nor posting.

 

[ireload2]

It IS GUESSING to fit check but not shoot a primer.
The only real functional test is to fire them.

Just takes primer and see if it fits tight. Stop guessing. Larry

 

[25-06 Mike]

Good eye RonAKA,
After seating primers I usually inspect and feel them, and have indeed detected they are somewhat low.
I seat my primers with an RCBS bench priming tool, I use firm but not excessive pressure as the handle on the tool can exert a lot of pressure on the primers.
I have set many, many primers with this tool with no past consequence, however you think this could this be an issue ?

Thanks again,

 

[RonAKA]

Good eye RonAKA,
After seating primers I usually inspect and feel them, and have indeed detected they are somewhat low.
I seat my primers with an RCBS bench priming tool, I use firm but not excessive pressure as the handle on the tool can exert a lot of pressure on the primers.
I have set many, many primers with this tool with no past consequence, however you think this could this be an issue ?

You may want to measure the depth of the pocket to see if it is not too deep. Or, is there any chance you are crushing the primer? I suspect not, if you have been at it a while...

Here is a table of primer pocket dimensions.

 

[25-06 Mike]

Thanks RonAKA,

I will measure the primers and come back with some data.
I will give the IMR7828 a try over the weekend since I have some at hand.
Hopefully the long 26" barrel will like it better.

Many thanks again,

 

[dkhunt14]

The primers in the bottom pic look better. How many rounds did you shoot with This gun? How good are you cleaning It? R22 can build carbon in the throat. Matt

 

[nmkid]

I seat my primers with an RCBS bench priming tool, I use firm but not excessive pressure as the handle on the tool can exert a lot of pressure on the primers

If your budget allows it and you want to keep using the RCBS bench primer tool, you should look into Holland's primer seating option kit. It works great!!