Another turret question from a newbie

[NDAR15MAN]

Folks..... Hope I am not wearing my welcome out on this forum asking so many questions on scope turrets. I really want to thank everyone that has been answering my questions.

I just getting started into long range shooting. I have some nice Nikon and weaver scopes but all have the standard 1/8 click per inch turrets I am going to try to have some turret labels made in moa format so I can dial my shots in on 1000 yard shots. I have noticed on most caliber of guns that shoot 1000 yards plus need 30 to 50 moa turrets. To have this high of MOA turret numbers it seems to me you will need 3 or 4 or 5 rows of numbers on your turrets Because you will need at least 3 or 4 or 5 and maybe more revolutions of your turret to get to 1000-1500 yards. Correct ? It seems to me that scope company's are not doing themselves any favors and not doing any long range shooters any favors buy making short turrets that do not allow enough spacing to ad 4 or 5 or more rows of moa numbers to their turrets on a label or even a after market turret that is tall enough for 4 or 5 rows of numbers ? ? Is this a correct statement ? So really if you are a long range shooter that is setting up his scope and gun to shoot 1000 plus yards you need to buy a scope that has a tall enough turret to show 1-to 40 moa on the dial , correct ? Could some of you long range shooters show some pictures of your long range scopes and any turrets set up you use ? Is there that many scope models that have tall enough turrets to be able to get all the moa numbers listed that you need to dial 1000 plus yards ?. Like I said I am new to long range shooting but have hunted my whole life. I could even not be understanding the MOA turret concept **** I think the way these moa turrets are set up there is only lets say 5 to 20 moa numbers on a turret for 1 revelouition and the shooter has to keep track of the revelouition they are on ? It would be nice if the turret was tall enough to show moa numbers 0 through 40 or 50. I would like to see pictures of some long range turret setups and what model brand of scope of the pictures. Any one use 1 through 40 or 50 number on a turret ? If so what scope brand is that ? It has to be a very tall turret to hold all of those moa numbers correct ? Thanks for your understanding of all these oquestions from a newbie Martyd

 

[fredhorace77]

Buy a tapered MOA base and you will not need so many revs, on the turret.

 

[Dave Berg]

I think the way these moa turrets are set there is they is only let say 5 to 20 moa numbers on a turret for 1 revelouition and the shooter has to keep track of the revelouition they are on ?

That's true but it's not a big deal. With the Nightforce Competition you set the zero stop at your 100 yard zero. Each full counter-clockwise revolution is 10 MOA (there is an index hash on the vertical part of the turret if you lose count of the full turns). For 40 MOA from your 100 yard zero just rotate the turret four full turns from the zero stop. 41.5 MOA is four full turns plus 1 MOA (eight clicks) plus 4 more clicks. Total clicks is 332 but there's no need to count them.

 

[Dave Berg]

Here's a pic:

 

[NDAR15MAN]

Dave berg... Thanks for the picture. That scope has a nice tall turret were it would hold a lot of data on the turret. I really cannot understand why scope company's are not making turrets big and tall enough to hold all the printed data long range shooters need. I think turrets need to be at least 1 inch tall to put all the printed data we need. It boils down too I think you need a big enough turret so you don't loose track on what revaloution you are on. Do you agree ? Thanks. Martyd

 

[6MMsteve]

25in to 31in high at 100 will put u in the ballpark at 1000 depending on the case, My 308 Baer with unertl was 26.5 at 100 shooting 250gr SMKs

 

[JohnKielly]

I know more than one shooter who has a table of come ups stuck to the butt of his rifle. Reckon that's a lot cheaper & less complicated than multiple markings on the elevation knob. On the other hand, I have a couple of scopes fitted with windage knobs that have left wind & right wind markings. That's easy enough to use, but the supplier I used doesn't do the work any more.

 

[dkhunt14]

A marked turret only works when variables stay the same. If you change elevations, you need a new chart. If Temps change you need a new chart. You can't take a chart made for here in the east and go west and shoot. When you get to the thinner air of higher altitudes, things drastically change. Guys I know practice here all year long shooting steel.

They are shooting a pretty flat shooting combo. 300 Ultra Mags with 210 Bergers going 3200. When they go west to Colorado they are 2 feet high at 800 to 1000 to yards.

Dave Berg is right. It is a lot easier to use a Nightforce with a zero stop. The 5.5x22 NXS was made for longrange shooting. 100 MOA elevation, 10 MOA per revolution. If I need 24 minutes to go to 1000, it is two complete turns plus four numbers. Now in case I forget where I am at I just down to my zero stop for a hundred yards zero. It is all the scope you need to go to 2000 yards with an 20 MOA base in most guns. Matt

 

[NDAR15MAN]

What I am saying is that it is fine if you want to tape your moa data info to the stock butt , but you still have to a have enough turret space on your turret that shows all moa data on it to get to 1000 or 1500 yards or even 2000 yards. From what I see in the scope industry very few scopes have turrets tall enough ( have enough turret surface space ) to get enough moa data on 4 or 5 or 6 turret revolutions. I have a weaver scope , nice one 30mm tube that is a 8-32x50. Scope has a turret that you can zero. Turret is only 1/4 inch tall. Turret will make 7 revolutions but only enough turret surface to make a turret label that shows data on 2 revolutions. My fault for buying this scope. I guess I am saying that it is very very very important when u are thinking about buying a long range scope that your turrets are tall enough to ad rows and rows of moa data to the turret. Is this statement correct ? Martyd

 

[boltfluter]

You need a scope with .25 moa clicks. .125 moa will be insanely busy if you try to incorporate that into a label. You will need a turret about 12 inches tall. Lol.

Paul

www.boltfluting.com

 

[Dave Berg]

It boils down too I think you need a big enough turret so you don't loose track on what revaloution you are on. Do you agree ?

That's why the zero-stop is a big selling point. If I know how many clicks I need I can dial in a distance in the dark without even looking at the scope. Just turn the turret clockwise until it stops and you're at 100 then turn the other way and count the clicks. I don't need to know how many revolutions it is. The Nightforce Competition has more info on the turret than I need. I'm pretty sure that half a MOA is four clicks but they engraved it anyway.

Before zero-stop one had to know which hash mark was their 100 yard zero and dial up from there. With the old NightForce BR models with gold fill engraving it wasn't easy especially at a range that was under roof and kind'a dark. I carried a mini-mag light to make it easier to see the hash marks. Still managed to be off by a full revolution twice in about ten years. FWIW on a NightForce the second hash is #1. When NightForce switched to white lettering it got a lot easier. That being said I have watched some very accomplished shooters get thoroughly screwed up and finish with a just like new virgin target. Zero-stop solves this problem.

Every rifle I own that was build for 400 yards or longer has a drop card with yards vs clicks. I keep them glued inside the lid of the ammo box. It's not that hard if you know where the 100 yard zero is. Some of my guns have more than one set of data because some of the clubs around here are level but most aren't and shooting uphill or downhill really screws the numbers up.

 

[John Russell]

Folks..... Hope I am not wearing my welcome out on this forum asking so many questions on scope turrets. I really want to thank everyone that has been answering my questions.

I just getting started into long range shooting. I have some nice Nikon and weaver scopes but all have the standard 1/8 click per inch turrets I am going to try to have some turret labels made in moa format so I can dial my shots in on 1000 yard shots. I have noticed on most caliber of guns that shoot 1000 yards plus need 30 to 50 moa turrets. To have this high of MOA turret numbers it seems to me you will need 3 or 4 or 5 rows of numbers on your turrets Because you will need at least 3 or 4 or 5 and maybe more revolutions of your turret to get to 1000-1500 yards. Correct ? It seems to me that scope company's are not doing themselves any favors and not doing any long range shooters any favors buy making short turrets that do not allow enough spacing to ad 4 or 5 or more rows of moa numbers to their turrets on a label or even a after market turret that is tall enough for 4 or 5 rows of numbers ? ? Is this a correct statement ? So really if you are a long range shooter that is setting up his scope and gun to shoot 1000 plus yards you need to buy a scope that has a tall enough turret to show 1-to 40 moa on the dial , correct ? Could some of you long range shooters show some pictures of your long range scopes and any turrets set up you use ? Is there that many scope models that have tall enough turrets to be able to get all the moa numbers listed that you need to dial 1000 plus yards ?. Like I said I am new to long range shooting but have hunted my whole life. I could even not be understanding the MOA turret concept **** I think the way these moa turrets are set up there is only lets say 5 to 20 moa numbers on a turret for 1 revelouition and the shooter has to keep track of the revelouition they are on ? It would be nice if the turret was tall enough to show moa numbers 0 through 40 or 50. I would like to see pictures of some long range turret setups and what model brand of scope of the pictures. Any one use 1 through 40 or 50 number on a turret ? If so what scope brand is that ? It has to be a very tall turret to hold all of those moa numbers correct ? Thanks for your understanding of all these oquestions from a newbie Martyd

I'm not sure about your question - it is confusalating, but:

1 - the better scopes are in moa - so the 1/8th clicks are not 1/8th of an inch, they are 1/8th of a moa - so 8 click equals 1.047" at 100 yards, and 40 moa equals 42" at 100 yards.

2 - no matter what system you use, if the cartridge needs 38 moa of elevation from your 100 "0" to reach 1,000 yds, then you need to dial it.

3 - scope turrets are like micrometers - they have a number of fine clicks to each revolution, and then a barrel counter for the number of turns you have made.
So, if you have 10 moa per turn, and 5 hash marks on the barrel, and you need 33-7 moa to make your range, you simply dial 3 turns, then 3 moa, then 7 clicks, and you are on - it takes less time to do it, then it took to type it.

 

[dkhunt14]

Most of the turrets I saw set up for distance were set up with only one revolution. Like the Huskemaw. They usually have 20 MOA on one revolution. Once,you go past one revolution you have to count turns of the turret. Most scopes that work on that principle are set up with 1/4 or 1/3 or even 1/2 MOA. I don't like anything over 1/4 MOA because now sighting on a definite target gets harder. The bigger amounts just get harder to dial in when you get out there. One click of a 1/2 MOA scope at 1000 yards is 5 inches. Now that can cause a miss or even worse a wounded animal. Matt

 

[Geno C]

A turret with an indicator of what revolution you are on is a good aid in keeping where you are straight. The Vortex Razor Gen2 has a pin that pops out and pops out farther for the 3rd rev than the 2nd. To get what you are looking for you need to look at the Stiener t5xi. When you get to the second revolution, the numbers on the turret change to the set in order. A pretty slick setup actually

 

[NDAR15MAN]

A turret with an indicator of what revolution you are on is a good aid in keeping where you are straight. The Vortex Razor Gen2 has a pin that pops out and pops out farther for the 3rd rev than the 2nd. To get what you are looking for you need to look at the Stiener t5xi. When you get to the second revolution, the numbers on the turret change to the set in order. A pretty slick setup actually

Excellent idea. Thanks for info. Marty

 

[Sniper338]

OP

Your absolutely lost with what your trying to find and do... no offense, you gotta start learning somewhere.

Your wasting your time and money. Nikon scopes are junk. Nikon makes scopes for the weekend warrior that doesnt have a clue.

Weaver fixed power scopes are good for BR, but the 3x9s and all that mess is all junk too.

Scopes are made to shoot long range. They are out there on the market already. You cant reinvent the wheel by putting stickers on your turrets. One it wont work, period. Two, cheap scopes dont track internally correctly, the list goes on and on.

If you want to shoot long range accurately you have to buy the correct stuff to do it.

Your so lost its not funny and you need to find someone to take you under your wing..

 

[NDAR15MAN]

Sorry I am lost. I will get a compass. Ha ha ha. No offense. Just thought a scope label would work on a nikon for some long range coyote shooting. Not going to be using this gun for any type of matches or any thing like that. Thanks for every ones help thou. Martyd

 

[John Russell]

Your wasting your time and money. Nikon scopes are junk. Nikon makes scopes for the weekend warrior that doesn't have a clue.

Your so lost its not funny and you need to find someone to take you under your wing..

Are you a full time (7 days a week) warrior???? I didn't think this was a tactical/sniper site. I musta got "lost" too!

I have 5 Nikon 6,5-20x44 Monarchs, and they are excellent scopes, with excellent glass. The turrets track the dials perfectly. I'm not the only one that thinks they are fine scopes either... they sell for more used after being discontinued some time ago, than they did when they were new.

 

[NDAR15MAN]

Right now just trying to make make the nikon work till I can buy a sightron III. I also have the 5-20x44 scope and some other nikon and high dollar weaver scopes. Some just do not have a very tall turret to ad lots of info to a ad on label. It has done real well for me shooting prairie dogs out to 600 yds using the bdc on scope. Thanks for all the help guys. Martyd.

 

[Turbulent Turtle]

Are you a full time (7 days a week) warrior???? I didn't think this was a tactical/sniper site. I musta got "lost" too!

I have 5 Nikon 6,5-20x44 Monarchs, and they are excellent scopes, with excellent glass. The turrets track the dials perfectly. I'm not the only one that thinks they are fine scopes either... they sell for more used after being discontinued some time ago, than they did when they were new.

The Nikon Monarch 6.5-20X44 is an awesome scope and it was a steal for the money. I bought one at the end of their run in 2006, I think it was. At that time, the German Magazine Visor published a lengthy article about a scope comparison conducted in an optics lab at Schmidt Und Bender. This was not a test of some yoyo looking through a bunch of scopes and deciding which one looked clearer to his eyes, this was a comparison using instruments.

The scopes they tested were: Burris Signature 6-24X44, Docter VZF 8-25X50, Leupold VX-III LR 6.5-20X56, Nightforce NXS 5.5-22X56, Nikon Monarch II 6.5-20X44, Schmidt Und Bender PM II/LP 5-25X56, Swarovski PV-S 6-24X50, Zeiss Victory Diavari 6-24X56 and Zeiss Victory Diavari 6-24X72. The Nikon was the least expensive scope in the tests.

The results were very interesting. The Nikon Monarch II 6.5-20X44, the one that I have and I believe John has multiple copies of, had the highest index of light transmission at 93.3% in daytime and 91.4% at night. The next best results were the S&B with 93.3 and 91.0% respectively. The article said that the Nikon had good clarity at the edges but was not as good on the resolution of the Siemens star as some of the pricier scopes.

They tested the tracking and all the other stuff and the Nikon did just fine.