Feedback about the Giraud trimmer

[kcomeau10x]

Just that it is a cheaper way to start. I did get Giraud's upgrade kit for mine and a carbide 3-way cutter from Bob Jones. I agree that fit and finish don't match the Giraud, but I can do 100 .223 cases in 15 minutes.

 

[jlow]

Just that it is a cheaper way to start. I did get Giraud's upgrade kit for mine and a carbide 3-way cutter from Bob Jones. I agree that fit and finish don't match the Giraud, but I can do 100 .223 cases in 15 minutes.

Thanks. Price although important was not the top priority for me, I wanted something that works out of the box with the least amount of adjustment, Giraud with specific cutters for the caliber I shoot fits my needs best.

 

[dcali]

The Giraud is great. But get some rubber gloves to help hold the cases. Otherwise, your fingers get sore pretty quickly.

 

[Slickrick0999]

Ok, this is what I used before getting the Giraud. It's a opossum hollow if I remember correctly.
Good if you don't want to champher and debur at the same time you trim (but that is exactly why I bought the Giraud).
You can set trim length and it indexes from shoulder.

 

[Brians356]

My only trepidation about buying the Giraud is based on descriptions in this thread about chamfering/deburring resulting in a "sharp knife edge" on the case mouth (which I avoid, so just humor me, please.) Others assert that the sharp finish is an exaggeration. Others claim there is some level of adjustment to avoid that. Someone posted a photo but it was not a closeup of a single case, and too indistinct to see the finish on the neck end.

It's good that we can kick around which trimmer is best, but we shouldn't have to stumble in the dark around just what the Giraud actually does to the case mouth. Could one of you Giraud mavens possibly post a decent photo of a finished case mouth?
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[Slickrick0999]

.308
Tell me what picture you want and I'll try

 

[Slickrick0999]

The cutter is adjustable but also one piece.
You do not adjust the chamfer independent of the debur. It's not hard to set up really. Much easier than say, mounting a scope.

 

[Brians356]

The cutter is adjustable but also one piece.
You do not adjust the chamfer independent of the debur. It's not hard to set up really. Much easier than say, mounting a scope.

So the cutter is adjustable, i.e. to determine the length of the neck, but the profile of the cut edge is not adjustable?
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[Brians356]

.308
Tell me what picture you want and I'll try

Thanks. Pretty blurry (you might try "macro mode" or manual focus - I know too well it can be a pain) but in pic #2 I'm pretty sure I see a rather sharp edge, or inverted "v" profile.
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[Slickrick0999]

The inverted V is dead on.
You can adjust a little bit on chamfer / debur but heavier on one equates to lighter on the other. You do have a little bit of angle to work with also.
Here is a picture of the cutter, maybe this will help.
Knife edge is a drastic description in my opinion but yours may vary.
Best way to trim brass, hands down, IMO.

 

[Brians356]

Until I see a sharp close up of either a finished case mouth, or the notch in the cutter blade ... "A picture is worth a thousand words." And we are getting close to that word count. Soon someone will remind me "You like to ask a lot of questions". **

This photo from Giraud's site (Yikes! Slso blurry!) suggests a definite middle flat, i.e. a three-sided notch. Seems like someone with trigger working tools (grinder, files, stones etc.) could take that cutter and widen the center flat, to minimize the chamfering. Maybe even Giraud would do that.

http://www.giraudtool.com/prod03.htm


[** "There is no learning without having to pose a question. And a question requires doubt." Richard Feynman]
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[ryanjay11]

There is no middle flat on the cutter. I seriously hope this answers your question.

 

[cwall64]

Until I see a sharp close up of either a finished case mouth, or the notch in the cutter blade ... "A picture is worth a thousand words." And we are getting close to that word count. Soon someone will remind me "You like to ask a lot of questions". **

This photo from Giraud's site (Yikes! Slso blurry!) suggests a definite middle flat, i.e. a three-sided notch. Seems like someone with trigger working tools (grinder, files, stones etc.) could take that cutter and widen the center flat, to minimize the chamfering. Maybe even Giraud would do that.

http://www.giraudtool.com/prod03.htm


[** "There is no learning without having to pose a question. And a question requires doubt." Richard Feynman]
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Might I suggest an email or phone call to them? I had several questions myself before buying it (as well as his annealer) and Doug took the time to discuss with me.

 

[Brians356]

There is no middle flat on the cutter. I seriously hope this answers your question.

Yes it does. Seriously.
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[ryanjay11]

Removing where the blades meet would remove the ability to actually trim the brass. It would only chamfer/deburr. You would need a separate step to trim, basically taking away the entire reason to own one of these.

Some people just like to make things more complicated than they actually are.

 

[Matt in Virginia]

fwiw,
Failed to mention last night, along with the pictures, that you need to use heavy self adhesive velcro on both flat wrenches and on the bottom of the machine. The velcro needs to fully encompass the exterior of the wrench and then some. That said you don't have to hunt for them... They will rattle as shown.

You will have to try the Giraud. No one can spoon feed the information to you and guarantee the you will like it. The upside is that you can sell it for medical costs should you impale yourself on one the sharpened case mouths...;-). Hands on is your only real answer...

Regards, Matt.

 

[Joe R]

So, this Giraud is as fast and easy as sticking a pencil into an electric sharpener, huh?

I'm considering one myself, but I have two comments:

1. If it's indexing off the shoulder, at first I thought that was a potential problem if all shoulder datums were not already sized exactly the same. But after reconsidering, who cares? As long as every neck (not every overall case) is exactly the same length, who cares about cases' OALs being slightly different? Besides, a subsequent proper shoulder bump (or body size if you like) would then render the case OALs as close to identical as matters, because the necks will be set back right along with the shoulders.

2. Indexing off the shoulders is close to ideal for subsequently using a typical neck turner that indexes off the case mouth, as the depth of cut into the shoulders should be very consistent. I find this very compelling.

3. Concern: Chamfers/deburs the case mouth to a "sharp knife edge finish". Yikes! Really? No way to avoid that? If that's true, it's too bad because I'm prepping cases for ammunition, not for hole punch tools. Is it possible to disable the chamfer/debur entirely, leaving that for a separate task?
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Brian,
I have a Giraud and like several have already stated, the play in the case holder will give you problems. The solution is to have your gunsmith make a case holder with the reamer used for your chamber, like Erik Cortina did. I do use the lock ring.

Unlike most people I don't trim my case until after they have been fired the first time and before resizing. IMO after firing is when the cases are the most uniform. The instruction say to do it after resizing. I've tried both ways and settled on the one that works best for me.

If you trim virgin brass with the Giraud you will regret it. Most of the virgin Lapua cases have as much as .005 head space variance, not to mention the fact that the lapua cases are short (~2.008)to start. You'll end up with cases that have 1.9XX OAL. Ask me how I know that?

To remove the "sharp knife edge finish" I have a very small container stuffed with steel wool and all I do is stick the neck in there and give it a half turn. That is enough to make the edge smooth as silk, but not sharp.

I do use sailing gloves (leather without the finger tips) to avoid blisters from holding the case firmly and twisting to get an even cut all around.

Regards,

Joe

P.S. I don't like sharp edges because I don't want to take a chance on shaving bullets during seating. Consistency is all about squeezing out the variables.

 

[Brians356]

Joe,

I always use steel wool on my mase mouths after trimming and chamfering.

I am not concerned with a sharp edge per se. I am concerned with excess chamfering and deburring. IMO the ends of the neck walls, sectioned, should look like a truncated pyramid, with the 90-deg flat top far wider then the side angles created by chamfering and deburring. A "vee" profile case mouth rounded (as you described) enough to only cut warm butter is still waaaay too thin. I believe in removing the absolute minimum of brass from the end of the neck wall, leaving the mouth as beefy as possible to resist deformation from "chamber rash", ejection, and mishandling over time. A pointed case mouth, like a leather hole punch made of brass, is simply too delicate, and unnecessarily so. There's no reason even a VLD bullet needs a chamfer so deep it eats half way through the neck wall.

Assume neck IDs are sized .002" smaller than bullet OD (not atypical.) A chamfer that narrows the square end of the neck wall only .0015 - .0020" is sufficient to create a wide enough funnel - removing any more material is a waste of time and precious wall material. To chamfer so deep as to eat almost halfway into a .012" thick neck wall, or .005", is to form a funnel which is .006" wider than the bullet. To what gain?

But even if a deep VLD chamfer is deemed necessary, there is still no reason in the world to deburr the outside so severely that it eats away far enough to essentially meet the chamfer half way and leave a pointed end. The outside deburr should, literally, just remove any burr of flash left by the trimmer. Any rounding of the outside 90-deg corner can be accomplished with steel wool. I treat the outside corner as if it was a 45 ACP case which headspaces on the case mouth.
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[1shot]

I have been following this thread with lots of interest as I ordered a Giraud last week and will take delivery this week. I also purchased an additional case holder, setup case and cutter from a forum member that arrived the other day. The cutter is shaped like a V with out coming to a sharp point. You are able to control the amount of inside/outside neck chamfer by moving the blade within the holder. My set up case has more material removed on the inside, than the outside of the case mouth, but there is no razor sharp edge or "cookie cutter" look to it at all.

I will comment further one the unit has arrived and I begin to process some brass.
Thanks,

Lloyd

 

[msinc]

...I am not concerned with a sharp edge per se. I am concerned with excess chamfering and deburring. IMO the ends of the neck walls, sectioned, should look like a truncated pyramid, with the 90-deg flat top far wider then the side angles created by chamfering and deburring. A "vee" profile case mouth rounded (as you described) enough to only cut warm butter is still waaaay too thin. I believe in removing the absolute minimum of brass from the end of the neck wall, leaving the mouth as beefy as possible to resist deformation from "chamber rash", ejection, and mishandling over time. A pointed case mouth, like a leather hole punch made of brass, is simply too delicate, and unnecessarily so. There's no reason even a VLD bullet needs a chamfer so deep it eats half way through the neck wall.

Assume neck IDs are sized .002" smaller than bullet OD (not atypical.) A chamfer that narrows the square end of the neck wall only .0015 - .0020" is sufficient to create a wide enough funnel - removing any more material is a waste of time and precious wall material. To chamfer so deep as to eat almost halfway into a .012" thick neck wall, or .005", is to form a funnel which is .006" wider than the bullet. To what gain?

But even if a deep VLD chamfer is deemed necessary, there is still no reason in the world to deburr the outside so severely that it eats away far enough to essentially meet the chamfer half way and leave a pointed end. The outside deburr should, literally, just remove any burr of flash left by the trimmer. Any rounding of the outside 90-deg corner can be accomplished with steel wool. I treat the outside corner as if it was a 45 ACP case which headspaces on the case mouth.
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You are going to get a sharp, angled to a point. having zero flat at all case mouth with this trimmer. It sure sounds like this is what you do not want. There is no way to change this without spending more money. This is one disadvantage to you. Some guys obviously don't care or feel like it is a problem.
It was touched on previously several times on this thread, but to reiterate...since this type trimmer indexes off of the resized shoulder the end result will only be as accurate as the cases being trimmed were resized. These type trimmers {shoulder indexing} work great if you have a lot of brass to trim because they are fast. If the brass is very consistent in its hardness or anneal and all the cases resize to the dead on headspace you want then they should and will trim up very consistent and be dead on the length you set. When you have a batch of cases that are not consistent and show different headspace length after they are sized then this is exactly what you will see for a finished trim length...inconsistency, because it follows what you have for a resized length.
You are not going to hear anything bad about this device or any other item with a high cost...because once someone has spent money past a certain point they will not admit there are any issues. The spending of money, at least enough of it, causes people to ignore, forget or look past anything that could reflect negatively on what they now own. There have been a few comments to suggest issues with this trimmer, but you notice how they were not presented as problems??? If this thing didn't cost $500.00 no one would have any trouble saying they wished the cutter could be adjusted so it didn't make a straight razor out of the mouth...instead..."it's not a problem, don't know why you cant just get over it like we did." "You can always use your cases to trim your nose hair, where else but here can you get a deal like this???"
You heard how you might have to take the case holder to a "gunsmith" to make one that works....but again, it wasn't presented as any issue at all..."all ya gotta do...". One guy has stated he got the parts to fix the thing BEFORE he even has it in his hands!!!!! $500.00 and a months wait to have to go get more parts to make it work right from somebody else??? Yeah, I cant wait any longer, gotta have one asap!!!!