Feedback about the Giraud trimmer

[jlow]

My guess from looking at photos is the shape of the edge will depend on how you set the blade. Normally, I would think you would cut a shallower cut on the outside i.e. deburr than say the inside which you would want a steeper angle like with a VLD chamfer.

 

[Slickrick0999]

6ppc brass

 

[Brians356]

Thanks. Hard to see from afar, but looks pretty sharpened, not much original uncut flat remaining?
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[andre3k]

I agree about the knife edge. It cuts the case mouths at a very sharp angle. I also sometimes have a issue with one side of the case mouth not being chamfered as much as the other side. Overall it works well, but I need to address those two issues.

 

[jlow]

Well, one guy said "knife edge", so different impressions being bandied about. I'm a minimalist chamferer myself. Could someone post (or point to) a close-up photo of the case mouth after Giraud trimming?
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I think the degree of "knife edge" depends a bit on how that cutter is angled. If you angled it evenly, then yes it would look like a knife edge. But if you angle it so that the outside (deburr) cut is shallow, and the inside (chamfer) cut is deeper, it at least to me would seem like less of a "knife edge".

 

[ryanjay11]

Please explain how the "knife edge" is an issue. I've been using a Giraud for several years and trimmed thousands of rounds without this causing me any problems. I'd like to know what I'm missing here.

 

[Brians356]

Someone needs to devise a trimmer that indexes on the shoulder, but simply cuts 90-degs, no beveling.

Cumbersome and slow, but a common trim die and a file would fill the bill for me. And the trim die (if properly dimensioned WRT body/shoulder) ostensibly sets back the shoulder in the same step - you run the case up into the die, and trim the neck while it's still locked in the sizing position. It should be ideal for case-to-case neck length consistency.

But the flies in the ointment (besides low production rate) are that standard trim dies are considered (by RCBS anyway) as the final "form" die, but not necessarily as tight dimensionally as a true body die. And the other problem is that trim dies are dimensioned for "trim-to" length, so if some of your necks are already shorter than "trim-to" you cannot get them all cut the same length. You'd have to mill the top of the die back a bit, and that top deck is hardened to resist scuffing with a file. Plus it's not flat, it's slightly convex. If you just shorten the bottom of the die, you'll be setting the shoulders back, probably more than you desire.
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[Brians356]

Please explain how the "knife edge" is an issue. I've been using a Giraud for several years and trimmed thousands of rounds without this causing me any problems. I'd like to know what I'm missing here.

If you don't mind your necks having a sharp edge like a hole punch, then there is no problem AFAYC.
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[rardoin]

Someone needs to devise a trimmer that indexes on the shoulder, but simply cuts 90-degs, no beveling.
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Brian, the World's Finest Trimmer (WFT) does just that. the inserts are cartridge specific and index off the shoulder. An endmill is the cutting element and provides a 90deg mouth to neck cut. I use it chucked in a drill press to cut back long necks when converting cases from one chambering to another when I have to remove > 0.010" or so. It is very quick.

 

[ryanjay11]

If you don't mind your necks having a sharp edge like a hole punch, then there is no problem AFAYC.
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Please explain why you consider this to be a problem.

 

[rardoin]

Please explain why you consider this to be a problem.

This...perhaps?:

http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/ouch.3910944/

 

[Brians356]

Please explain why you consider this to be a problem.

I'm rather at a loss for words if it's not already self evident. Perhaps I can turn it around and ask: Why do you prefer the neck ends beveled to a sharp edge, like a hole punch?
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[ryanjay11]

I'm rather at a loss for words if it's not already self evident. Perhaps I can turn it around and ask: Why do you prefer the neck ends beveled to a sharp edge, like a hole punch?
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I use my trimmed brass to hold bullets. The "knife edge" does not affect this purpose. What are you doing with your brass that requires this to be dull?

This...perhaps?:

http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/ouch.3910944/

I saw this thread. If hammering your finger with a piece of brass is common practice, the "knife edge" could possibly be a problem.

 

[Brians356]

Brian, the World's Finest Trimmer (WFT) does just that. the inserts are cartridge specific and index off the shoulder.

Looks good, and I see readily available.

Doesn't seem adjustable, so what length does it cut to - SAAMI "trim-to" length for the specific cartridge?

Also, there are combination models available, for example "5-in-1" is for 17 Rem, 221 Fireball, 222 Rem, 223 Rem, 222 Rem Mag, etc. but some of those have significantly different neck lengths (from shoulders) so how does it work for all of them if it's not adjustable?

Edit: Sorry, I see on Little Crow's site these actually are adjustable for neck length using dual opposing set screws. Thanks!
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[rardoin]

Looks good, and I see readily available.
Edit: Sorry, I see on Little Crow's site these actually are adjustable for neck length using dual opposing set screws. Thanks!
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Takes a few minutes to adjust but once it is dialed in, keep a reference case trimmed at that length as a standard so if you change lengths for another cartridge, you just loosen the adjustment screws, set the 'reference case' case in the case holder and push in the cutter until it bottoms out on the case mouth and tighten set screws...easy. I have not used a Giraud so I cannot comment on a comparison between the two. I will likely buy a Giraud as trimming to length, then performing separate ID and OD mouth chamfering operations is getting a bit tiresome. From my review of Giraud's instructions it would seem that one could adjust the ID and OD chamfer depths independently and not have a knife edge...perhaps more difficult to achieve on thinner necks.

 

[Matt in Virginia]

fwiw,
I run 5 stainless Micrometer Wilsons with Ti plated cutters and one early Sinclair/Wilson that is setup just for .375 H&H Magnum. Excellent pieces of gear... Low volume runs can make a Wilson make sense. I suppose. High volume I am at a loss as what is wrong with the Giraude. I will say the .50 BMG unit, not currently available, has a different cutter profile that MAY address some of your needs. You might contact Giraude.

The only thing I might add is not to over analyze the thing before you have run one. You can snatch defeat from the jaws of victory in that fashion. I do THAT often...;-) The ONLY thing about the Giraude that is a hassle and/or expense is setting up two cases on the same cutter, unless of course you buy a seperate cutter for each chambering. Then it is a gripe of expense...

Regards, Matt.

 

[Chris Few]

I have one and love it. After trimming with it I hate using anything else to trim cases. I think most would agree that 2 of the biggest advantages with this setup is consistency and TIME! I know how long it takes to do all of the other prep work as well as loading them so any chance that I can get to help speed up the process without sacrificing accuracy/consistency I am all for it.

Chris

 

[XTR]

If you shoot BR and your weekend match is a low shot number affair (as opposed to HP disciplines that shoot well over 100 shots) and have a handful of "special" cases then maybe you won't see the value of the Giraud. If you are an F class/HP/PRS shooter and buy brass in lots of 500 to 1000 cases for two or more chamberings (self) then there really is no other option worth considering.

Not all shooting sports participants need the same stuffs. I have never shot a .0 group, and may never.

I have posted many times. Giraud trimmers are one of the things that are almost never seen for sale used. Once people use one they only sell them when they are getting out of shooting.

 

[kcomeau10x]

I’ve been using the L.E. Wilson trimmer now for quite a few years. Mine is setup to run with a drill together with a carbide cutter. I’ve had some problem with the drill bit interface bending in the past but that seemed to have gone away. Works reasonably well but I have never been able to totally avoid occasional chatter when the cutter has to take a pretty big bite. I realize that they sell now a clamp which will fit on my stand and perhaps that would make it go away.

So thinking about the above upgrade makes me wonder if I should just upgrade to a Giraud as I have heard so many good things about it. One big advantage of this setup is of course it will not only trim but also chamfer and deburr. My hands are only getting older with clear signs of arthritis and so I am thinking the Giraud trimmer would allow me to reload longer.

I Watched Eric Cortina video again last night on the Giraud trimmer. I noticed that he was getting very consistent trim with his brass with what seems like little effort. However, he mentioned that the Giraud shell holder have some play which is not present with his custom holder made with chamber reamer. This all makes good sense to me but my question is if I don't have the chamber reamer for all my rifles, can I expect the same degree of consistency he was getting if I just use the Giraud Shell holder that has some play?

Not looking for ultimate speed, just reasonable speed but most important precision and accuracy. Any constructive feedback (positive or negative) on this trimmer based on actual experience is welcomed.

Have you heard of the Gracey case trimmer?

 

[jlow]

Have you heard of the Gracey case trimmer?

I've heard of it but knows nothing about it. Did a Google search but frankly was not that impressed. Looks like it does not give a "knife edge" but I am not worried about that. Do you have a point about the Gracey?