Question on 223ai FL die

[MrMajestic]

If the barrel is not indicated in correctly or the tailstock is misaligned with the headstock the resulting chamber doesn't stand much of a chance matching any die but a custom. JMHO

 

[Longtrain]

FWIW, I had been shooting my AI and using a Wilson neck die for reloading, worked fine. Decided to use my Redding body die, but found it would not bump the shoulder. I sent the die and cases to Redding and found my chamber is a tad short, back to the smith for adjustment. Evidently there are lots of AI versions out there and the datum point for measuring the chamber may vary. Mine was based on PO's original with a little tighter neck and longer freebore for heavies.

 

[Deleted old_dood]

I'm the OP. I received my custom FL die from Whidden today and just finished setting up for a .002" bump on the shoulder. The press is no where near camming over and the effort to size is far less than it was with the Redding body die. I'm quite pleased.

 

[Longtrain]

Whidden is building me a non-bushing custom .223 AI sizer die with .252 neck to match my reamer. They were great to work with, 3 fired cases and we're on our way.

 

[Deleted old_dood]

Whidden is building me a non-bushing custom .223 AI sizer die with .252 neck to match my reamer. They were great to work with, 3 fired cases and we're on our way.

I keep wondering if a non bushing die was the way I should have gone. I have 200 pieces of fireformed Lapua and they all mic .250" when loaded. I've noticed that my Whidden custom bushing die will size all the way down to the neck shoulder junction unlike the Redding neck die.

 

[bobcat93]

For what it's worth I believe there is a difference between ackly improved and improved..
I believe the 223 is an improved ..ackly never did the 223 so that is why Redding calls it the 223 improved 40...I can't remember ever full length sizing my 223 improved 40 Case's.. I just didn't see the point..I did alot of work to get my brass the way I wanted it..so I want long case life..I have some going on 9 or 10 × reloaded..I'm curious to how many I will get.. I have never had to trim them or return the necks ..I just clean, anneal , neck size, reload..
I don't know if my comment did any good to this thread..but I wanted to chime in..lol

 

[jpretle]

bobcat93, i think the 'Ackley Improved' title refers to the case design or case changes, rather than to a specific cartridge; more specifically, the straighter case walls and the 40* shoulder. Just 'improved' could mean about anything w/o specifics. Such as, a change in shoulder angle and no change in the case wall, among others.

 

[Phil]

I'm the OP. I received my custom FL die from Whidden today and just finished setting up for a .002" bump on the shoulder. The press is no where near camming over and the effort to size is far less than it was with the Redding body die. I'm quite pleased.

How long did it take to get your die from Whidden???

Phil.

 

[SmokinJoe]

Phil, I got my new 20-223AI die from them a couple weeks ago, and IIRC it took about 6 weeks.

 

[Phil]

Phil, I got my new 20-223AI die from them a couple weeks ago, and IIRC it took about 6 weeks.

Fired brass, reamer print, or both????

6 weeks isn`t too bad.....

 

[Deleted old_dood]

How long did it take to get your die from Whidden???

Phil.

not sure but 6-8 weeks sounds right.

 

[Deleted old_dood]

Fired brass, reamer print, or both????

6 weeks isn`t too bad.....

I sent them both.

 

[Eddie Harren]

Phil, I got my new 20-223AI die from them a couple weeks ago, and IIRC it took about 6 weeks.

Wait a minute Joe, The local "Expert" said nobody makes a custom die for this cartridge. Is it possible that he was mistaken?

 

[SmokinJoe]

I know you are just pokin' some fun, but seriously, I think Whidden's can make about anything you want. I would only have dies made from brass fired at least twice based on some of my past experience.

 

[Eddie Harren]

I know you are just pokin' some fun, but seriously, I think Whidden's can make about anything you want. I would only have dies made from brass fired at least twice based on some of my past experience.

Joe, I know that and you know that but apparently the "local expert" does not. He knows now by God!

 

[steve123]

For what it's worth I believe there is a difference between ackly improved and improved..
I believe the 223 is an improved ..ackly never did the 223 so that is why Redding calls it the 223 improved 40...I can't remember ever full length sizing my 223 improved 40 Case's.. I just didn't see the point..I did alot of work to get my brass the way I wanted it..so I want long case life..I have some going on 9 or 10 × reloaded..I'm curious to how many I will get.. I have never had to trim them or return the necks ..I just clean, anneal , neck size, reload..
I don't know if my comment did any good to this thread..but I wanted to chime in..lol

Bumping this back up because I recently went 223AI.

GS said that the reamer he used was sammi??? It seems just right as far as doing a slight crush on shoulder when putting virgin brass in. That was Ackley's intent I believe or at least the most sensical way, even though someone mentioned he never did do a 223AI.

I bought some used Redding dies off a nice guy, Redding FL, NK and seater in 223 Improved/40 #1. But the dies are .013" too long for .002 bump, and won't size at all at the .200 line, it will size the shoulder width .003. I sacficed my Lee shellholder by gringing the top down to find all this out.

I'm thinking I should try Lee??? I too hate that I can't tighten the primer punch collet on my regular 223 Lee dies enough, the primer punch rod get's pushed up, even with rouge, and cases get stuck in it way more than any other die brand I've used but I'm running out of options, well that's why I'm asking, right?!

I'll probably go with Whidden custom dies but that means months before I can shoot the rifle again. I hate that too, lol.

I also saw Wilson has an Arbor press seating die in 223AI but what if that doesn't fit, lol. I should just order a seating die blank and have that GS make me a seater from that reamer.

Honestly I wasn't expecting this much hassle, lol. Just whining a bit but was hoping for more insight.

 

[Deleted old_dood]

Bumping this back up because I recently went 223AI.

GS said that the reamer he used was sammi??? It seems just right as far as doing a slight crush on shoulder when putting virgin brass in. That was Ackley's intent I believe or at least the most sensical way, even though someone mentioned he never did do a 223AI.

I bought some used Redding dies off a nice guy, Redding FL, NK and seater in 223 Improved/40 #1. But the dies are .013" too long for .002 bump, and won't size at all at the .200 line, it will size the shoulder width .003. I sacficed my Lee shellholder by gringing the top down to find all this out.

I'm thinking I should try Lee??? I too hate that I can't tighten the primer punch collet on my regular 223 Lee dies enough, the primer punch rod get's pushed up, even with rouge, and cases get stuck in it way more than any other die brand I've used but I'm running out of options, well that's why I'm asking, right?!

I'll probably go with Whidden custom dies but that means months before I can shoot the rifle again. I hate that too, lol.

I also saw Wilson has an Arbor press seating die in 223AI but what if that doesn't fit, lol. I should just order a seating die blank and have that GS make me a seater from that reamer.

Honestly I wasn't expecting this much hassle, lol. Just whining a bit but was hoping for more insight.

when I first switched to ai I used a Redding neck, body, and seater. I had the same problem as you and had to grind down a shell holder to get the required bump. I sent the body die back to Redding and they replaced it with something a little better but I still had to use the modified shell holder. In the meantime I ordered a custom Whidden FL bushing die then everything worked fine. In addition, I ordered a Wilson chamber type seater. I found that with that seater, the cases must be FL sized. If neck sized only, the case won't go all the way into the seater. I understand Wilson can take care of that but, since I FL size only, I never bothered.

 

[Cuando]

No such thing as a SAAMI anything for .223AI which can be a problem.

What you're feeling as a slight crush is too much crush quite obviously.

I'd have the smith re chamber myself.

 

[steve123]

No such thing as a SAAMI anything for .223AI which can be a problem.

What you're feeling as a slight crush is too much crush quite obviously.

I'd have the smith re chamber myself.

This was with the firing pin assembly taken out. The bolt goes down pretty easy and I'm greasing the lugs. Like I mentioned it seems just right. I'm no expert but I prefer that slight crush on the shoulder for fireforming.

 

[jepp2]

No such thing as a SAAMI anything for .223AI which can be a problem.

What you're feeling as a slight crush is too much crush quite obviously.

My smith headspaces the 223 Improved at -0.004" vs a 223 go gage, which seems to be pretty much the standard practice followed. Of course it all depends on the case head to datum of the cartridges you are firing, but with mine headspaced that way you can feel the resistance of the brass as you close the bolt on unfired LC brass.

I fireformed 936 on prairie dogs the last couple of years without losing a single case, so it seems to be working just fine.

When I neck down my 222 for the 20 Bobcat, I also leave just enough of a donut so I can feel the blot close on the case. 1097 formed this season without losing a case.