You can go all the way down the barrel and find those changed . Rim fire shooters shoot with mid barrel tuners along with them being on a bloob tube . LarrySo I went to the range this AM with O-Rings in hand. I am shooting a 284 Shehane, 195gr hybrids going ~2750 fps, 20K off the lands using 51.9gr H4350, 32" barrel. The inside center ID is .350". The standard load is shooting consistent low 3's. I made sure I was centered up on the center ring and shot a 3-shot group to make sure the load is centered as best as I could. Then, I used the velcro pad as a reference and shot with 6 o-rings just in front of the velcro pad, at the tip, behind the velcro pad and approximately 2 sets of o-rings behind the velcro. Then, I shot another set at the tip (target #5), which has a pulled shot that a shooter next to me timed his AR with a compensator on it, timed perfectly with his shot.
This is by no means conclusive and I will be doing this more and more to see if the pattern is consistent. It does appear that in various positions, the o-rings are changing the group sizes. The one at the tip and behind the velcro pad appears to show a shrinking of the groups and a slight POI shift to the 6 o'clock position. The other positions seems like it started to vertically string the shots.
Again, I will have to do this again to see if this can be repeated.
Just another data point in this whole conversation...
Barrel Tuner vs Dapeners vs Load Development
- Thread starter bsumoba
- Start date
Tim Singleton
Gold $$ Contributor
I can't explain it either. But it happens with some barrels. I look for a barrel that doesn't display that trait
Attachments
Good pictures you see the point of impact change along with vertical and horizontal .
Larry
Dont give up on tuners so easily.
I was in the same camp you are until I had a RAS tuner installed on my 6BRX. Found it easy to work with an did wonders on reduction of my group size @ 600 yards.
You tune the barrel not the load. I set my tuner once and have not touched it since.
Last weekend at the IBS 600 yard Nationals I took 3rd place for heavy gun group (my rifle weighs 16.95 lb's) my group size averaged 1.996 inches over eight targets. Let me see you match that with a rubber band on your barrel. LOL
I was in the same camp you are until I had a RAS tuner installed on my 6BRX. Found it easy to work with an did wonders on reduction of my group size @ 600 yards.
You tune the barrel not the load. I set my tuner once and have not touched it since.
Last weekend at the IBS 600 yard Nationals I took 3rd place for heavy gun group (my rifle weighs 16.95 lb's) my group size averaged 1.996 inches over eight targets. Let me see you match that with a rubber band on your barrel. LOL
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You tune the barrel not the load. 100% rightDont give up on tuners so easily.
I was in the same camp you are until I had a RAS tuner installed on my 6BRX. Found it easy to work with an did wonders on reduction of my group size @ 600 yards.
You tune the barrel not the load. I set my tuner once and have not touched it since.
Last weekend at the IBS 600 yard Nationals I took 3rd place for heavy gun group (my rifle weighs 16.95 lb's) my group size averaged 1.996 inches over eight targets. Let me see you match that with a rubber band on your barrel. LOL
Dont give up on tuners so easily.
I was in the same camp you are until I had a RAS tuner installed on my 6BRX. Found it easy to work with an did wonders on reduction of my group size @ 600 yards.
You tune the barrel not the load. I set my tuner once and have not touched it since.
Last weekend at the IBS 600 yard Nationals I took 3rd place for heavy gun group (my rifle weighs 16.95 lb's) my group size averaged 1.996 inches over eight targets. Let me see you match that with a rubber band on your barrel. LOL
I don't need the rubber band. A regular barrel with a tuned load could do that also. I'm sure it not the tuner that shot that 1.996. It's a combination of things.
You are absolutely correct.I don't need the rubber band. A regular barrel with a tuned load could do that also. I'm sure it not the tuner that shot that 1.996. It's a combination of things.
The tuner just makes it a little easier and I need all the help I can get.
If you expect tuners to make a perfectly tuned rifle shoot a smaller group, you're setting yourself up for disappointment. It's not about improving upon a perfect tune, but about maintaining tune and agg'ing ability.I don't need the rubber band. A regular barrel with a tuned load could do that also. I'm sure it not the tuner that shot that 1.996. It's a combination of things.
Tim Singleton
Gold $$ Contributor
When you find the correct seating depth for the bullet you have chosen and you have a little vertical that you normally tune out with more powder.
I tune that vertical out with the tuner giving me IMO a wider tune that enables an overall better agg.
I tune that vertical out with the tuner giving me IMO a wider tune that enables an overall better agg.
Ok so let's say I have a barrel without a tuner and I have tuned my load as much as I know how. Now my load is running 0.1's. What benefit would I get from taking the barrel off, having it threaded, and installing a tuner?
If it always holds that tune under changing weather conditions-none
Tim Singleton
Gold $$ Contributor
There are several approaches to using a tuner. What you describe is the method most short range BR shooter do. With the tuner off the rifle we tune it to its best potential. Then we screw on the tuner hopefully we can widen that tune window. In other words without the tuner a slightly lighter charge might show vertical you tune this out. The intent is to have a broader window that will agg better than the barrel could without the tuner
Two things...first, a wider tune window, meaning the gun will stay in tune throughout much much wider condition changes. Tuners widen the tune window but do not make a gun impervious to condition related changes in tune. Second, the ability to maintain that peak level of tune at the bench, with a small nudge of the tuner. As i said, tune changes will happen so it's a matter of when, not if, you can benefit from this aspect that tuners give us.
So the wider tune window, does that mean that with no changes to the tuner, the gun will stay in tune with the current load thru a bigger range of conditions (temp & humidity I'm assuming)?
Another aspect is barrel life. They simplify tuning and shorten the whole learning curve to finding tune as well as maintaining it. In fact, the last several barrels I've used...maybe 10 or so...I've been able to find the tune by simply going with historically known good loads in a given cartridge and just tweaking the tuner. For examples..29.5 of 133 in a ppc, 34.5 of 4198 in a 30BR, 26.0 of Lt32 in a 220 Beggs, 30.8 of N120 in a 30major. These are all loads that were proven to shoot in some given condition in other given barrels and rifles. Tuners allow you to get the full potential from a given load in a given rifle with only moving the tuner. This has proven to work very well virtually 100% of the time. This greatly simplifies tuning with fewer shots and better meaningful barrel life.
Yes! Exactly. Rick, you're only about an hour from my shop. If we can get together, I can show you all you need to know in under an hour. Tuners are that simple! --Mike
butchlambert
Site $$ Sponsor
Slicky ricky, I would trash that barrel ,and get a good one. Now if you have one that shoots .050", it may be a keeper. I'll qualify that, if I'm pulling the trigger.
butchlambert
Site $$ Sponsor
I copied Charles Huckaba a few years ago and wrapped my unlimited barrel with golf shafting tape. For you that aren't golfers, it is lead tape about .500 wide with adhesive on one side. Did it help, I think so.
Here is my take on tuners. For short range BR shooting the can help . But all the shooters reload after ever relay.
So a tuner isn't as much as a advantage .
Where a tuner helps is when you load in advance . Then the conditions change and you stuck with a load that isn't correct .
With a tuner I can correct it .
Most times with very small changes .
Fixed ammo it what a tuner works best with .
The last barrel I put on took me 8 shots with cleaning every 2 shots to have it shoot in one large hole . And repeat the next 10 .
I adjusted the seating depth to find where my lowest Es were .
The next day I won the gong shoot with a perfect 15 hits out 15 shots . Larry
So a tuner isn't as much as a advantage .
Where a tuner helps is when you load in advance . Then the conditions change and you stuck with a load that isn't correct .
With a tuner I can correct it .
Most times with very small changes .
Fixed ammo it what a tuner works best with .
The last barrel I put on took me 8 shots with cleaning every 2 shots to have it shoot in one large hole . And repeat the next 10 .
I adjusted the seating depth to find where my lowest Es were .
The next day I won the gong shoot with a perfect 15 hits out 15 shots . Larry
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