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Initial report on eTargets from Lodi Nationals

Bryan Litz Ballistics

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Just got back from the range after day 1 of the Mid Range tournament. I'm starting this thread to share observations about the eTargets, not so much match results which I'm sure will be covered in other threads.

Here are some initial observations...

Overall, IMO, the eTargets are working well and are already an improvement over traditional pit service.

The whole system performed well with one minor exception of the tablets occasionally losing signal. However this was addressed quickly by the NUMEROUS SUPPORT STAFF who are there specifically to provide technical assistance. Those I spoke to were PATIENT AND HELPFUL. Also, there are two tablets on each firing point; one for the shooter and one for the scorer. In a couple cases my tablet lost connection and my scorer simply showed me his display and we proceeded without delay. I did likewise for my shooter when I was scoring. Both tablets lose never lost connection at the same time. This kind of delay would be like when you shoot the spotter out and have to wait for target repair. In fact, I think there were fewer delays from the eTargets connectivity issues compared to shooting out spindles especially at 300 yards.

Initially, inactive shooters were logging onto the system to 'spectate' the action and that was drawing a lot of bandwidth. The staff locked out all but the 'official' tablets (shooter and scorers) and that seemed to improve the connectivity problems.

I like the eTargets for many reasons, especially now that I see them proving out with large crowds (which was a concern of mine). Everyone on the line gets EQUAL TARGET SERVICE, meaning you can't get stuck with a 'slow target puller'. The tablets are programmed to show you the shot value immediately, but there is a 7 second delay before you see your shot location. In my opinion, this the same as 'good' target service and the key is it's the same for everyone.

It's clear that the Liebetrau family, Silver Mountain Target guys, and other range personnel worked very hard to prepare for this event. They have: CLEAR INSTRUCTIONS AND EXTRA PARTS to replace things that aren't working. They're very understanding and patient with the shooters who are struggling to learn; for many its their first exposure to eTargets and they're able to catch on quickly and there are plenty of helpful staff standing by to help see you thru any problem.

Another advantage is that SCORES ARE POSTED IMMEDIATELY. By the time relay 1 was shooting at 500, full results from 300 were printed and posted on a vehicle parked at center line. Same thing at 600.

Once you get the hang of signing in as a shooter or scorer and going thru the process, it's quite painless and simple. We're keeping paper scorecards as a redundant measure 'just in case'. So far I'm not aware of any case of scores going missing.

I wasn't at the practice yesterday but I heard the only problem they had was that some of the equipment downrange was hit and the range crew are not happy about that, but it obviously wasn't catastrophic damage because everything's working today. In the ballistics business we have a saying: anything downrange is fair game! Any plan involving downrange instruments must have a provision for destruction of said instruments. (BTW, downrange begins at the bolt face, and does include magnetospeeds and bore-sighters)

Anyway, if I had one complaint specific to eTargets it would be the small questioning of zeroes. At 300 it was clear that the target was getting 'chewed out' about mid 10-ring at 9-O'clock but the groups were registering 'centered' on the eTarget. Simply click to center and it's not a problem except for when you need to know your wind zero perfectly. I consider this a small issue in the grand scheme, and THE BENEFITS OF ETARGETS FAR OUTWEIGH THE DRAWBACKS.

Keep in mind this is 'day 1, initial impressions'. It's supposed to rain tomorrow so the eTargets will endure another important test. But before we judge, remember that paper targets aren't exactly impervious to rain either.

Finally I want to say that I'm very proud of the shooters for taking this big change in stride. Some shooters were reluctant to see this move to eTargets, but I personally didn't see or hear any (unconstructive) negative comments or complaints by shooters. The Silver Mountain guys and other eTarget makers are blazing a trail and elevating our discipline and that always goes smoother when you have the support of the participants who ultimately benefit.

Shooters at the 2016 FCNC; Please chime in with your experiences and initial impressions of the eTargets from the practice and day 1.

-Bryan
 
Bryan, thanks fir the excellent report. I do think e targets are here to stay.
Just got back from the range after day 1 of the Mid Range tournament. I'm starting this thread to share observations about the eTargets, not so much match results which I'm sure will be covered in other threads.

Here are some initial observations...

Overall, IMO, the eTargets are working well and are already an improvement over traditional pit service.

The whole system performed well with one minor exception of the tablets occasionally losing signal. However this was addressed quickly by the NUMEROUS SUPPORT STAFF who are there specifically to provide technical assistance. Those I spoke to were PATIENT AND HELPFUL. Also, there are two tablets on each firing point; one for the shooter and one for the scorer. In a couple cases my tablet lost connection and my scorer simply showed me his display and we proceeded without delay. I did likewise for my shooter when I was scoring. Both tablets lose never lost connection at the same time. This kind of delay would be like when you shoot the spotter out and have to wait for target repair. In fact, I think there were fewer delays from the eTargets connectivity issues compared to shooting out spindles especially at 300 yards.

Initially, inactive shooters were logging onto the system to 'spectate' the action and that was drawing a lot of bandwidth. The staff locked out all but the 'official' tablets (shooter and scorers) and that seemed to improve the connectivity problems.

I like the eTargets for many reasons, especially now that I see them proving out with large crowds (which was a concern of mine). Everyone on the line gets EQUAL TARGET SERVICE, meaning you can't get stuck with a 'slow target puller'. The tablets are programmed to show you the shot value immediately, but there is a 7 second delay before you see your shot location. In my opinion, this the same as 'good' target service and the key is it's the same for everyone.

It's clear that the Liebetrau family, Silver Mountain Target guys, and other range personnel worked very hard to prepare for this event. They have: CLEAR INSTRUCTIONS AND EXTRA PARTS to replace things that aren't working. They're very understanding and patient with the shooters who are struggling to learn; for many its their first exposure to eTargets and they're able to catch on quickly and there are plenty of helpful staff standing by to help see you thru any problem.

Another advantage is that SCORES ARE POSTED IMMEDIATELY. By the time relay 1 was shooting at 500, full results from 300 were printed and posted on a vehicle parked at center line. Same thing at 600.

Once you get the hang of signing in as a shooter or scorer and going thru the process, it's quite painless and simple. We're keeping paper scorecards as a redundant measure 'just in case'. So far I'm not aware of any case of scores going missing.

I wasn't at the practice yesterday but I heard the only problem they had was that some of the equipment downrange was hit and the range crew are not happy about that, but it obviously wasn't catastrophic damage because everything's working today. In the ballistics business we have a saying: anything downrange is fair game! Any plan involving downrange instruments must have a provision for destruction of said instruments. (BTW, downrange begins at the bolt face, and does include magnetospeeds and bore-sighters)

Anyway, if I had one complaint specific to eTargets it would be the small questioning of zeroes. At 300 it was clear that the target was getting 'chewed out' about mid 10-ring at 9-O'clock but the groups were registering 'centered' on the eTarget. Simply click to center and it's not a problem except for when you need to know your wind zero perfectly. I consider this a small issue in the grand scheme, and THE BENEFITS OF ETARGETS FAR OUTWEIGH THE DRAWBACKS.

Keep in mind this is 'day 1, initial impressions'. It's supposed to rain tomorrow so the eTargets will endure another important test. But before we judge, remember that paper targets aren't exactly impervious to rain either.

Finally I want to say that I'm very proud of the shooters for taking this big change in stride. Some shooters were reluctant to see this move to eTargets, but I personally didn't see or hear any (unconstructive) negative comments or complaints by shooters. The Silver Mountain guys and other eTarget makers are blazing a trail and elevating our discipline and that always goes smoother when you have the support of the participants who ultimately benefit.

Shooters at the 2016 FCNC; Please chime in with your experiences and initial impressions of the eTargets from the practice and day 1.

-Bryan[
 
So the acoustic centre wasn't the optical centre.
Major issue if 180 wind shifts occur!
Same as not having corect wind zero on scope.

Be interested to hear report when long range occurs - possibly more competitions on line? Could have comms errors ?
Although Lodi limited to max number of how many targets?

And very interested to hear reports of accuracy / no missed shots at 1000?
APB
 
I don't think the calibration offset is intentional. In another match, my firing point, it was 18" off due to some kind of error.
 
If they are running an offset it isn't a problem. We ran offsets at Atterbury all season and they worked just fine. If the wind was out of the South or the North zeros were not affected, not sure where you were getting your info from. Like Bryan was saying it lets the X/10 ring stay clean but chews up another part of the target. Our prone centers each probably have 2-3k shots on them and have not been faced since feb. Not sure on the 8 mic system, but on our 4 mic G2 system if a mic fires wrong it will put you about 6-8 MOA low. This only happened with us when we were using some extensions to the top sensors (2 and 4) that didn't have the proper inner co-ax core diameter.
 
Congratulation on a successful day.

Now that installation is complete, do we have a capital cost to the range including buried cable, PLC's and all additional components. I think everyone in interested in that?
 
Congratulation on a successful day.

Now that installation is complete, do we have a capital cost to the range including buried cable, PLC's and all additional components. I think everyone in interested in that?
Actually, I think "everyone" is far more interested in an individual setup cost. As I am not going to be setting up a multi position rifle range anytime real soon, I couldn't care less how much WGC spent.
 
Let's get this out of the way and stay with the topic.
SMT G2 $3,050.00 plus a tablet of your choice or your smart phone. A modification to your target frame to hold the sensors maybe 20 bucks.

John
 
Let's get this out of the way and stay with the topic.
SMT G2 $3,050.00 plus a tablet of your choice or your smart phone. A modification to your target frame to hold the sensors maybe 20 bucks.

John
Yes, that information is readily available. That wasn't the point. There are others who support/sell other systems that are less forward with pricing who are trolling
 

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