Norma 6Dasher Brass

[savagedasher]

Using a Forster co ax press their isn't a problem . RCBS power trimmer works fine Old lee case holder works . Not a problem on this end . Larry

 

[rcw3]

Shiraz

I realize threads like this can seem hurtful, but they can also be helpful - - IMO, it all depends on one's perspective.

I do want to compliment you for "keeping cool while under fire" on this thread here.

Thanks for keeping the correct perspective - - well done!

Robert

 

[JRS]

Shiraz

I realize threads like this can seem hurtful, but they can also be helpful - - IMO, it all depends on one's perspective.

I do want to compliment you for "keeping cool while under fire" on this thread here.

Thanks for keeping the correct perspective - - well done!

Robert

That's Shiraz! Cool & Couth.

 

[swd]

I have seen some pretty bad behavior on this forum in the past but some of the responses on this thread are a new low in lack of respect. Guys acting like Shiraz personally took a crap on their dinner table. If you own a rifle chambered in a wildcat cartridge and cant figure out how to have an extractor adjusted, trim a case or are too stupid modify a shell holder or too cheap to spend $12 on a new one it's time to check your man card at the door, take up something like badminton and run around screaming the "sky is falling" every time your wife asks you to take out the garbage. Either set up for the new brass or send it back.

 

[Raythemanroe]

I have seen some pretty bad behavior on this forum in the past but some of the responses on this thread are a new low in lack of respect. Guys acting like Shiraz personally took a crap on their dinner table. If you own a rifle chambered in a wildcat cartridge and cant figure out how to have an extractor adjusted, trim a case or are too stupid modify a shell holder or too cheap to spend $12 on a new one it's time to check your man card at the door, take up something like badminton and run around screaming the "sky is falling" every time your wife asks you to take out the garbage. Either set up for the new brass or send it back and STFU.

Interesting, I agree the cries over the rim (#2 RCBS shell holder $5) thickness and God for bid trimming a wildcat case tear jerkers are BS.... Though I am waiting testing from a couple people I know with new reamers ordered.. We need 2900 fps + or a 6BR chambering is much easier... I think most would like 3000 fps + with good pocket life or the 6BR would be easier..

I haven't read one post with a chamber cut for this brass so I withhold judgement for the important issues..Primer pocket need to last to make the brass viable option also..


Ray

 

[joefrank64k]

I have seen some pretty bad behavior on this forum in the past but some of the responses on this thread are a new low in lack of respect. Guys acting like Shiraz personally took a crap on their dinner table. If you own a rifle chambered in a wildcat cartridge and cant figure out how to have an extractor adjusted, trim a case or are too stupid modify a shell holder or too cheap to spend $12 on a new one it's time to check your man card at the door, take up something like badminton and run around screaming the "sky is falling" every time your wife asks you to take out the garbage. Either set up for the new brass or send it back and STFU.

Testify, brother!!

WTF is going on in this thread?? Why all the bellyaching?? This is NEW brass from a DIFFERENT manufacturer. Of COURSE you have to work up your loads, right?? The longer neck is an unexpected but welcome gift. There was a reamer available right out of the gate, just for this new brass.

I can't wait to get my new barrel chambered up. How great that I don't have to fire form first!!

 

[falconpilot]

The bellyaching is simple. People were very excited to finally have Dasher brass that was load and shoot. This is what everyone was led to believe from the very beginning of this project/thread. What is being sold it apparently not the same dim.'s as Lapua brass...I say this because I personally haven't handled one of the new cases to measure it myself, just counting what I've been reading here..

All that said, it would have been nice if the Norma brass would work in our old chambers..it seems that in some it will, some it will not.. no big deal.. for those that it won't, we'll just go on shooting Lapua brass. It's not the end of the world..I'm sure Shiraz will have no troubles selling his brass to those that are willing to do what it takes to shoot it. If you don't like it, don't buy it..if you've already bought the brass and reamer..well..the old saying goes...never buy the A model of anything..personally, I'm glad I waited..I had preordered 500 cases and then cancelled...I remembered when the new 284 brass came out..it wasn't the same either...but it's still great brass and the brass that I shoot in my 284 today..

 

[JRS]

The bellyaching is simple. People were very excited to finally have Dasher brass that was load and shoot. This is what everyone was led to believe from the very beginning of this project/thread. What is being sold it apparently not the same dim.'s as Lapua brass...I say this because I personally haven't handled one of the new cases to measure it myself, just counting what I've been reading here..

All that said, it would have been nice, but now it's not, so no big deal..just go on shooting our Lapua brass. It's not the end of the world..I'm sure Shiraz will have no troubles selling his brass to those that are willing to do what it takes to shoot it. If you don't like it, don't buy it..if you've already bought the brass and reamer..well..the old saying goes...never buy the A model of anything..personally, I'm glad I waited..I had preordered 500 cases and then cancelled...I remembered when the new 284 brass came out..it wasn't the same either...but it's still great brass..

That is quite sad!

Shiraz and NORMA entered into, and produced the brass the masses have pleaded for. LAPUA didn't! I don't recall anyone else willing to pony-up, contribute the effort, and forward hundreds of thousands of dollars to NORMA to make this happen. As has been the case for more than 3 decades, if something isn't right, Shiraz will make it right!

 

[falconpilot]

JRS....I was in no way knocking Shiraz or Norma and if you'll read all my posts, I think you'll find that I've stated several times that I appreciate all Shiraz has done to make this happen. I wish it were plug and play...As I've gotten older, I've learned to really dislike turning brass, fireforming, etc, and I'm not going to retool everything right now when I have several barrels setting here that shoots lights out with Lapua brass. I'd think it'd be fair to say there are probably quite a few who are in my position as well. When I shoot these barrels out and get ready to rechamber, I'll try the new brass. As for now, I'm not worrying myself over a piece of brass...was only trying to answer a question that someone had committed on...I too wish everyone would relax and give credit where credit is due.

 

[rcw3]

I have seen some pretty bad behavior on this forum in the past but some of the responses on this thread are a new low in lack of respect. Guys acting like Shiraz personally took a crap on their dinner table. If you own a rifle chambered in a wildcat cartridge and cant figure out how to have an extractor adjusted, trim a case or are too stupid modify a shell holder or too cheap to spend $12 on a new one it's time to check your man card at the door, take up something like badminton and run around screaming the "sky is falling" every time your wife asks you to take out the garbage. Either set up for the new brass or send it back and STFU.

Hmmm - - in my postings, I spoke of most of the items you mention:

Shell holders
Rim thickness
Extractors and the issue of adjusting them
Trimming cases
etc.

I agree with you on one thing - - we should all work at taking the high road in our postings.

It seems to me that a forum like this is a place to express, discuss and debate the following, regardless of whether some may find it not to their liking to hear or read such matters:

Fact based observations or data (positive or negative)
Selling points or positive attributes of products
Shortcomings, complaints or criticisms of products
Consumer or other preferences
Personal experiences with products

It may be some here have very different ideas on what is appropriate discussion for a forum and the form it should take but I don't have an answer for that one.

 

[swd]

Robert, your posts are professional and construtive and taken that way. I in no way am pointing a finger at you.
There have been a whole slew of posts that have been deleted today, I assume by the mods, that were nothing but whinney, almost personal attacks at Shriaz. They seem personally offended that the brass doesn't match Lapua perfectly. I understand being dissapointed that it needs a bit of work, but the attacks were things your mother wouldn't let you get away with. The level that a handful of members here stooped to is unexcusable for grown men. I'm glad the posts got deleted.

 

[Shiraz]

For all the people saying that the Norma brass measures different than the Lapua, the main difference is only in the rim thickness, and the necks - see below.

We also sell Lapua brass so our engineer took a brand new Lapua Br case that had not been fire-formed into a Dasher yet and measured it against the new Norma Dasher brass.

1) We all knew the neck was going to be longer - so that's a non-event.

2) The base rim is thicker on the new Dasher brass, and we have discussed it to death already! For the guys that have not read all the posts, new shell holders are available from Bullets.com. Specially made by Redding for the Dasher brass. Some shipped already others shipping within 10 days.

Most actions do not have an issue extracting the thicker rims, but for the others, two minutes and a few thousandths can be taken off the extractor claw face to be able to grab the thicker rim.

We also measured base to shoulder on a Lapua fire-formed Dasher brass that had been fired numerous times and the base to shoulder junction is exactly the same!

Okay - here's the drawing. So, all the speculation about different sizes etc. is just that! Before anyone questions the measurements, I trust this particular engineer's measurements more than I would trust my own !

 

[Charles]

Picked up a rcbs#2 holder works fine and just finished trimming 10 cases to 1.555 checked how they chambered a little tight put thru the body die and it chambered fine,will not extract in the Bat B action as soon as i figured out to get the extractor out of the bolt will remove the .008 it calls for and then proceed not a lot to do just a process. Before ordering i had jds Hydo form 200 cases and formed them PD shooting shot very well to 400 yds, will say i am very happy with the 500 pieces of brass i just received from Shiraz. will have them up and shooting in a bit.

 

[rcw3]

For all the people saying that the Norma brass measures different than the Lapua, the main difference is only in the rim thickness, and the necks - see below.

We also sell Lapua brass so our engineer took a brand new Lapua Br case that had not been fire-formed into a Dasher yet and measured it against the new Norma Dasher brass.

1) We all knew the neck was going to be longer - so that's a non-event.

2) The base rim is thicker on the new Dasher brass, and we have discussed it to death already! For the guys that have not read all the posts, new shell holders are available from Bullets.com. Specially made by Redding for the Dasher brass. Some shipped already others shipping within 10 days.

Most actions do not have an issue extracting the thicker rims, but for the others, two minutes and a few thousandths can be taken off the extractor claw face to be able to grab the thicker rim.

. . . . .

Shiraz

From my perspective (for what that's worth, if anything) and but for the rim thickness, the Norma brass is dimensionally fine by me. Not to plug the dies we sell here but they are "plug and play" with the new Norma brass and the chambers made from the reamers Bullets.com sells for it. I like the longer neck a great deal and I am o.k. with having to do a different set of load workups to recommend for customers, although I initially would have preferred not to have to go that direction. A shell holder is no big deal, they are available (and some are real inexpensive like the Lee #3).

I see the rim thickness issue as being one that may be a thorn to impede the overall sales and marketing of the brass in the long term if it is not made 100% "plug and play" with normal 308 bolt face bolts. We have worked with the Dasher for years and have literally many hundreds of Dasher customers who we interact with. I have already received contacts with people asking us "What about the Norma brass"? I can tell someone "it's good, but you may need to modify your extractor" - - - but the pause and quiet after you deliver that message says it all (i.e. the quiet that is deafening) - - it's that edgy hesitancy that says so clearly the person is debating if they now want to go that route and have to possibly deal with that. My recommendation - do what you have to do for now and get the brass that's already made sold, but in the future (if there will be a future for this) do whatever needs to be done to fix the issue and don't mess around!

You have done a great thing bringing this to market, but you know as well as I that those who stand still and don't improve and adapt die - - so go at it! May God be with you, and may you be well and prosper!

Robert Whitley

 

[Shiraz]

My recommendation - do what you have to do for now and get the brass that's already made sold, but in the future (if there will be a future for this) do whatever needs to be done to fix the issue and don't mess around!
Robert Whitley

Thanks for your comments. This IS the Norma Dasher brass and no changes are scheduled. The last thing that we would want is two versions of the same Norma brass.

Orders are very brisk and people are also ordering the new shell holders along with the brass. I anticipate that we will be out of stock before the second air shipment arrives.

 

[Kiba]

From my perspective (for what that's worth, if anything) and but for the rim thickness, the Norma brass is dimensionally fine by me. Not to plug the dies we sell here but they are "plug and play" with the new Norma brass and the chambers made from the reamers Bullets.com sells for it.

Robert, I know your FL Type S 6 Dasher die will work as-is with the Norma Dasher but can you confirm the "plug and play" aspect is true with your Redding seater die? I purchased a 6 Dasher Redding die set from you about 2 months ago and based off my measurements of the seater die using regular (short neck) 6 Dasher brass the neck portion of the seater die is about 0.017" too short for the Norma Dasher brass when trimmed to 1.600. Based off that measurement I figured the neck of the Norma Dasher case (when trimmed to 1.600 OAL) would bottom out against the small shoulder in the seater die that is located where the "neck relief" diameter of the seater die transitions to the smaller bore for the seating stem rather than the die registering off the shoulder of the case as it would with the shorter necked standard 6 Dasher case.

I sent the internal sleeve of my seater die to the gunsmith so he could touch it up with the 6 Norma Dasher chambering reamer which will extend the neck length of the seater die-- but if you say all is well I'll tell him not to bother. I'd appreciate a confirmation, thanks!

 

[KWeigel]

Thanks for your comments. This IS the Norma Dasher brass and no changes are scheduled. The last thing that we would want is two versions of the same Norma brass.

Orders are very brisk and people are also ordering the new shell holders along with the brass. I anticipate that we will be out of stock before the second air shipment arrives.

Shiraz I thank you for this wonderful brass!!!!
I can't say enough about my appreciation. Don't get down about the posts. There are way more of us who are ecstatic.

 

[Loggins J]

I will just stick with lapua and form it or get DJs brass to form it for me

 

[KWeigel]

I will just stick with lapua and form it or get DJs brass to form it for me

We have options. Isn't this country great! Thanks to people who set out for a goal and achieve it. Both DJ and Shiraz.

 

[rcw3]

Robert, I know your FL Type S 6 Dasher die will work as-is with the Norma Dasher but can you confirm the "plug and play" aspect is true with your Redding seater die? I purchased a 6 Dasher Redding die set from you about 2 months ago and based off my measurements of the seater die using regular (short neck) 6 Dasher brass the neck portion of the seater die is about 0.017" too short for the Norma Dasher brass when trimmed to 1.600. Based off that measurement I figured the neck of the Norma Dasher case (when trimmed to 1.600 OAL) would bottom out against the small shoulder in the seater die that is located where the "neck relief" diameter of the seater die transitions to the smaller bore for the seating stem rather than the die registering off the shoulder of the case as it would with the shorter necked standard 6 Dasher case.

I sent the internal sleeve of my seater die to the gunsmith so he could touch it up with the 6 Norma Dasher chambering reamer which will extend the neck length of the seater die-- but if you say all is well I'll tell him not to bother. I'd appreciate a confirmation, thanks!

Kia

I have not seen issues with the Norma brass in the competition seaters we provide. Our testing of it has been by measuring actual untrimmed Norma brass in the sliding sleeve to check the fit. If you put new Norma brass into the sliding sleeve and if the base protrudes .125" - .130" out of the bottom, then you should be good (the .005" range is that there are not only manufacturing tolerances but also brass headspace differences that can affect that number). If things internally were too short, you would see the brass protruding a good bit more than that. I have not seen an issue there, but it is easy to check with the Norma brass.
Robert