Need .308 Win 1,000 yd load assistance

[SWRichmond]

Not everyone here is shooting highpower. For some, a 1k target is an 18x28 piece of steel. A 20" wouldn't be my choice for a match rifle, but if it's what I had, I wouldn't let it stop me from shooting.

You guys and your one track minds

I think it's important, if someone asks for advice and if you're going to give them some, to give good advice. Advising someone, especially a new long range shooter, to proceed down what will certainly prove to be a very frustrating and low-yielding path is not helping them succeed. Given the difficulties we encounter at 1K with our purpose-built rifles, if what I had was a 20" barrel it wouldn't stop me from trying it, but I can tell you for a fact it would have prevented me from learning to shoot in the wind, which is what LR is all about. Short barrels are great for shooting tiny groups at 100 yards.

 

[FatBoy]

I hear what you're saying, but he's not asking about the rifle. He already owns the rifle. Every comment about the barrel length and choice of rifles is irrelevant to the question.

This is a topic for a different thread, but how does shooting a slow 308 prevent you from learning to read the wind? Most guys go to hot 6, 6.5, 7mms BECAUSE they can't read wind and don't want to take the time to learn.

I think it's important, if someone asks for advice and if you're going to give them some, to give good advice. Advising someone, especially a new long range shooter, to proceed down what will certainly prove to be a very frustrating and low-yielding path is not helping them succeed. Given the difficulties we encounter at 1K with our purpose-built rifles, if what I had was a 20" barrel it wouldn't stop me from trying it, but I can tell you for a fact it would have prevented me from learning to shoot in the wind, which is what LR is all about. Short barrels are great for shooting tiny groups at 100 yards.

 

[jr600yd]

Hey guys, I think we are getting a little off the topic here. Skeeter is at the "run what you brung" point and just wants some load advice. He's already built his rifle so the barrel length argument is moot. He's not shooting Benchrest, Highpower or F class he just wants to hit steel at 1K and has pretty much figured out his current load ain't making it. I believe he has realized by now wind reading skills are needed at that range and he will work on them once the ammo problem is solved.

So what are his options with what he's got?
Go up or down in bullet weight?
Change powder or primers?
Forget about it and stay with targets under 800 yds?

Let's help this guy!

 

[Dgd6mm]

What do you think about a 155 grain bullet out of the 20"? Just thinking, run it on JBM and see what comes up. You may have to limit yourself to shorter distance then 1000 yards. Core in the panhandlers of Florida can go out to over 1200 yards now, but most of there comp matches they run are under 900 yards. These are usually the one day shoots.

 

[SWRichmond]

Not sure who advised skeeter to build a 20" bbl rifle in .308 and load 168 SMK's for shooting 1K, so that gave me a hint that a little more advice might be called for. I thought it might be considerate for someone to point out that he is in for a long long frustrating time, that this question has been asked and answered many times, and so I offered advice based on the assumption that he wants to actually be able to reliably hit stuff at 1K in a variety of conditions. People try this their own way and then get turned off to LR shooting because they spent a lot of time and money trying to do something which ain't doable.

skeeter: have a great time, buddy.


but how does shooting a slow 308 prevent you from learning to read the wind?

When your hits come up all over the place because your ballistics suck balls, how do you know what's happening downrange? How many 20" bbl .308 rifles can hold vertical at 1K? What kind of a learning platform is that? Hmmmmm?

 

[Heman]

What do you think about a 155 grain bullet out of the 20"? Just thinking, run it on JBM and see what comes up. You may have to limit yourself to shorter distance then 1000 yards. Core in the panhandlers of Florida can go out to over 1200 yards now, but most of there comp matches they run are under 900 yards. These are usually the one day shoots.

With a 20" barrel you are essentially the same as the AR-10 service rifles shot for LR. The AMU and pretty much all the other service rifle LR shooters load 185 Bergers with 44-45gr of varget. Capt. Freeman on the guard team got the 168 Hybrids to work very nicely out of his M14 (22" barrel). The 155s need a longer barrel to get up to speed.

 

[cdparker]

So, with the outfit that he has, He would be sufficiently equipped if he were to restrict himself to mid range (300-600) targets. Shooting the 175 gr. or 185 gr. bullet, he would learn about firing the perfect shot and reading wind to where he would become somewhat proficient with his skills and abilities. As almost all of you folks have tried to explain. You just can't get there from where he is asking to start. Somewhere around 4,000 rounds later, it will be time to rebarrel. By then he will have enough experience to know what he needs to do. We all realize that he is asking to do the impossible with his current rig. My thought is that mid-range targets will afford him a proper return for what he needs to learn.
JMHOFWIW

 

[Heman]

So, with the outfit that he has, He would be sufficiently equipped if he were to restrict himself to mid range (300-600) targets. Shooting the 175 gr. or 185 gr. bullet, he would learn about firing the perfect shot and reading wind to where he would become somewhat proficient with his skills and abilities. As almost all of you folks have tried to explain. You just can't get there from where he is asking to start. Somewhere around 4,000 rounds later, it will be time to rebarrel. By then he will have enough experience to know what he needs to do. We all realize that he is asking to do the impossible with his current rig. My thought is that mid-range targets will afford him a proper return for what he needs to learn.
JMHOFWIW

Yes, but even in mid-range prone and f-class guys run the long 30"-32" barrels. You become proficient in your skills regardless of what you shoot. There is a myth that you only learn to read the wind if you are shooting palma of F-t/r. Personally have him shoot the rig as is, till he gets money to re-barrel then re-barrel. No reason to blow money down the tube on powder/bullets just to shoot out a barrel that limits you.

 

[Ned Ludd]

With a little luck on the wind conditions, I think he can at least work with the 20" pipe for a while. As others have suggested, give the 185 Juggernauts a try if you have room enough to seat them properly. Varget, or better yet, H4895 with that short barrel ought to work nicely. Work up the load carefully, but you'll likely end up somewhere in the upper 42 to mid 43 grain range with H4895. Varget should end up from about half to a full grain more.

With regard to giving shooters advice on this forum, there is a potential caveat to simply telling someone to use the equipment they have, even if severely limiting, and upgrade later as it becomes feasible. Although I don't think the OP is in this position (close, but not quite), the risk is always there that the person will become so discouraged that they will eventually give up because their equipment is simply not sufficient for the task at hand. It's a fine line at times, but giving good advice will occasionally mean telling someone straight that their rig is just not up to the task of shooting at 1000 yd. It may sting a bit, but that's better than sending them down a frustrating road to nowhere. As I mentioned above, I don't think the OP is quite there. It will certainly be challenging to develop a load and shoot at 1000 yd with a 20" barrel, but not impossible.

 

[glider]

Do not want to sound like a jerk but you do not have ballistics in a .308 for what you want to do just swap out bbl for 26" or more and operate a 6.5 using same action .
Then youll be sayin can you believe it 4.5.6. Inch groups at 1k !

 

[Eric Leonard]

if the 155 Scenars wont get up in the 2875 range from 20 inches I would start with the heaviest highest BC I could use with what twist I had,, maybe 190 VLDs

 

[cdparker]

Yes, but even in mid-range prone and f-class guys run the long 30"-32" barrels. You become proficient in your skills regardless of what you shoot. There is a myth that you only learn to read the wind if you are shooting palma of F-t/r. Personally have him shoot the rig as is, till he gets money to re-barrel then re-barrel. No reason to blow money down the tube on powder/bullets just to shoot out a barrel that limits you.

Shawn, This guy is not shooting F or F-TR, he intends to "Bang Steel". I do not think that he will putting the demands of F class on himself. Years ago, Two years in a row, I shot myself into place medals in the Palma in the SR division at Perry with my 22", 10 twist barreled M1A. I used custom made 176 gr. Delta Bullets with a "Big Much" load of Varget. I think that with the 175 gr. +/_ bullets available today, He would have a chance to learn what he needs. I recently read a very good article by former SF and Army shooter Steve Adelmann on shooting An M110 in .308 at long range. He used a 24" barrel and stated that a 1:10 twist was needed and would not be opposed to a 1:9. So, let's be on his side and like a lot of the others encourage him to "Go shoot". Besides, it's about the learning experience, isn't it? Remember the fun that it was going from SS to Ex and then MA-HM? I think that it would be very interesting to hear an "after action" report from our shooter after he gets a shooting season under his belt.

 

[284winner]

if the 155 Scenars wont get up in the 2875 range from 20 inches I would start with the heaviest highest BC I could use with what twist I had,, maybe 190 VLDs

I tried 190s but had much better success with 185s. The compromise was more successful.

 

[CharlieNC]

I use a custom 6.5x47 for long range steel comps because it has great ballistics. When taking a training course at the same range I chose a 20" 308 with a fixed 10X scope, running 178Amax at 2575fps. Still supersonic at 1000yd. The load is at a good node with 42.0gr I4064 so vertical consistency is not an issue, but properly doping the wind required more concentration and attention which is why I chose this for the training exercise. My expectation was this higher level of difficulty would translate into better performance when shooting more forgiving balistics. As long as your expectations are in line with what is feasible you can hit steel at 1000yd, just not as consistently.

 

[NC308]

Load the 185 juggernauts over a stiff load of varget or 4064. If you can get them to 2550 or better they will make it just fine for what you want to do with them. Seen it done before. I shot them in my 26" 1;12 twist at 2650-2700 so you should be able to get 2550.

 

[aloreman]

throat it longer so you can get more powder in the case and hope for the best. then get a longer barrel or a less tacticool rifle. the more i shoot my 6 br at 1000 the less i wana shoot anything else

 

[aloreman]

also note the 168 smk was made for 300m

 

[Eric Leonard]

I saw a bumper sticker at a range in Ky a few years ago,,

"Friends Dont Let Friends Shoot 168`s"

 

[aloreman]

I saw a bumper sticker at a range in Ky a few years ago,,

"Friends Dont Let Friends Shoot 168`s"

Know what your shooting

 

[BoilerBobcat]

The AR-10 is legal as a service rifle for NRA Highpower and Long Range, and is required to have a 20" barrel. The 185 Berger gets there just fine with RE-15, Varget, or 4064. If you don't mind trashing your brass in the first two firings, the 175 SMK can do it as well. I've done it with both, and If I had the ability to read the wind better, I think I could shoot a 200 with 5 or more X's.

Yes, you're going to lose out to a 6.5 or 7mm. Yes you're going to lose out to someone shooting a Match or Palma rifle with 30+ inch barrels. But when you limit the rules, you can find ways to make do.