March glass vs Nightforce and Leupold

[LHSmith]

LH,

You really need to look through one of the 36 Valdadas to understand just exactly how much brighter and clearer they are then a March or Leupold. That isn't antidotal. It's been every person that's look through one with me and has said the same thing. There is no comparison.

FWIW...March, particularly at their price point, could have never gotten off the ground if the Leupold Competition series didn't have so many problems. Gene Bukys had a small cottage industry locking them and putting them in his TSI mounts.

You can send them back all you want. The majority of them will start shifting point of aim shortly there after. The old Leupold 36s are a different story. They can fix and repair them. The last competition series that graced one of my rifles was a week old when I took it to the Super Shoot. It shot great at the house. The match started and I shot like crap. It took two yardages for me to accept it could be the scope. Placing in the 140th range. Changed it out for my old 36 and in 4th and 6th for the next two yardages.

March exists because it filled a need. A solid scope when solid scopes were rare.

I respect your opinion and it bears a lot of weight. Lord knows you're way ahead of the accuracy curve than me. First, I only based my comments geared to the OP. I don't consider superior clarity as the #1 priority in a SR BR scope used for Score matches. Holding POA would be my #1. I also realize that LCS's can develop subtle shifts which are difficult to recognize. On the other hand, I have been at matches where records were set using LCS's and those same scopes continued to win afterwards. Apparently there is no scope made that has a 0 % failure rate. I am retired on a fixed income and up until this time I refused to join in on an equipment race by constantly changing equipment and buying the newest and greatest. I do have a 36x M8 ( one that I trust) with rings that I can switch out when I suspect the LCS is shifting. I guess you could say I'm not totally convinced the LCS's are always the cause of shooters problems.

 

[Scarab]

My LCS seems to track and return very well to POI. My complaint is the lack of clarity, not contrast or color etc.. My 10x50 Sightron for the money is an excellent scope, tracks very very well but the last 10X of magnification really washes out.
So here's my opinion, a scope needs to track, hold POI and have decent clarity. I do think that color and contrast are important, it's part of the whole experience. You don't build a 5000.00 gun, buy all the custom bullets, put the time in to make it all work together to look through a scope that is inferior to all the work, time and money that came before it.

 

[BartsBullets]

I respect your opinion and it bears a lot of weight. Lord knows you're way ahead of the accuracy curve than me. First, I only based my comments geared to the OP. I don't consider superior clarity as the #1 priority in a SR BR scope used for Score matches. Holding POA would be my #1. I also realize that LCS's can develop subtle shifts which are difficult to recognize. On the other hand, I have been at matches where records were set using LCS's and those same scopes continued to win afterwards. Apparently there is no scope made that has a 0 % failure rate. I am retired on a fixed income and up until this time I refused to join in on an equipment race by constantly changing equipment and buying the newest and greatest. I do have a 36x M8 ( one that I trust) with rings that I can switch out when I suspect the LCS is shifting. I guess you could say I'm not totally convinced the LCS's are always the cause of shooters problems.

LH,

Not all shooter problems are the scopes, but there are more scope problems then shooters realize. The fact is most can't shoot good enough or have a means to tell if there is an issue. You'd be amazed at how many shooters I've helped by putting my scope on their gun.
A scope that is only hurting you by .020 to .030 is hard to detect.

Scopes, brass, along with front rests and bags are the usual problems with most shooter's set ups. Then it's smoothing out gun handling, tuning and learning to reading the flags.

I don't like equipment races either but it sucks to spend a $1000.00 plus going to a match to have your scope take a dump on you. Or worse have a scope that is just moving enough that you have a poor season.

The highest failure rate on the line are the LCS I've just seen it for too many years. I've called and talked with them. All you get is denial.

Bart

 

[LHSmith]

My LCS seems to track and return very well to POI. My complaint is the lack of clarity, not contrast or color etc.. My 10x50 Sightron for the money is an excellent scope, tracks very very well but the last 10X of magnification really washes out.
So here's my opinion, a scope needs to track, hold POI and have decent clarity. I do think that color and contrast are important, it's part of the whole experience. You don't build a 5000.00 gun, buy all the custom bullets, put the time in to make it all work together to look through a scope that is inferior to all the work, time and money that came before it.

I am assuming your shooting SR BR ..either group or score.....both of which use black/ white targets or red/white (300 yds) I don't see the importance of color rendition what so ever. BTW-You were going to tell us the S/N suffix.

 

[LHSmith]

LH,

Not all shooter problems are the scopes, but there are more scope problems then shooters realize. The fact is most can't shoot good enough or have a means to tell if there is an issue. You'd be amazed at how many shooters I've helped by putting my scope on their gun.
A scope that is only hurting you by .020 to .030 is hard to detect.

Scopes, brass, along with front rests and bags are the usual problems with most shooter's set ups. Then it's smoothing out gun handling, tuning and learning to reading the flags.

I don't like equipment races either but it sucks to spend a $1000.00 plus going to a match to have your scope take a dump on you. Or worse have a scope that is just moving enough that you have a poor season.

The highest failure rate on the line are the LCS I've just seen it for too many years. I've called and talked with them. All you get is denial.

Bart

I completely understand your points. It's a difficult call for me, because if I begin looking to change optics, it means I have ceded that I no longer trust my guns.... ( quite a long journey to develop that trust) which is never a good thing.

 

[Scarab]

I am assuming your shooting SR BR ..either group or score.....both of which use black/ white targets or red/white (300 yds) I don't see the importance of color rendition what so ever. BTW-You were going to tell us the S/N suffix.

AB I think

 

[mr45man]

View attachment 978756 AB I think

 

[LHSmith]

So it's 2015/2016 vintage I believe. I have not looked through any recent LCS's, perhaps the glass quality went down hill since the last 7 years.

 

[JimPag]

I completely understand your points. It's a difficult call for me, because if I begin looking to change optics, it means I have ceded that I no longer trust my guns.... ( quite a long journey to develop that trust) which is never a good thing.

That's why I made that statement before Lamar. If I was forced to shoot a Leup scope, I would quit because I don't have faith in a Leupold Comp scope. I travel too far to go to these shoots and if I don't have faith in my equipment, I might as well stay home and chase to old lady around the house.

 

[LHSmith]

But Jim, you only had personal experience with one LCS (an altered one at that). I can accept Bart's critique because BR is his livelyhood and has actually used LCS 's in matches. I am close friends of some the games great competitors, -multi SOY, IBS record holders and when I have problems, I let them drive my equipment...and only until last year was one of the scopes in question. To me that's a pretty good track-record. Besides, I am one of the few shooting score that went back to the PPC just so if and when I do well I know I succeeded despite the caliber handicap....that is a great feeling on the drive home.

 

[JimPag]

But Jim, you only had personal experience with one LCS (an altered one at that). I can accept Bart's critique because BR is his livelyhood and has actually used LCS 's in matches. I am close friends of some the games great competitors, -multi SOY, IBS record holders and when I have problems, I let them drive my equipment...and only until last year was one of the scopes in question. To me that's a pretty good track-record. Besides, I am one of the few shooting score that went back to the PPC just so if and when I do well I know I succeeded despite the caliber handicap....that is a great feeling on the drive home.

Yes I've only owned one but I would never have put it on a rifle and take it to a match. I only bought it to resell it. I have seen about 7 fail so far during my 3 years competing. I have read countless other similar stories about them failing for other people. 2 of my closest friends that I shoot with, Jim Goody and Chris Mitchell had to send their fairly new LCS back. Chris sold his and went back to a Weaver T36XR which was an improvement. That's all I ever hear or read about is people sending their scopes back. I bet you any Leup scope could probably get back to Oregon on it's own so why the heck would I waste my time putting that JUNK on one of my rifles? I would have NO FAITH in the damn thing. I didn't spend all this time and money to end up putting a $1100.00 piece of crap on any of my rifles. That would be like taking off all my FF & B&A triggers and replacing them with a Jewell. It's not going to happen.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

If you buy a leupold comp new for right at the same money you could have a valdada thats clearer and is proven in actual competition over and over. Its a roll of the dice if your lcs is good or not and if it is now what about next match? Just last year i witnessed more than a few guns get fixed by installing a valdada. Those bad days get fewer and farther between with one. I know my aggs went down and so has a lot of other people i know.

 

[PeterE]

What is the current "street price" for the valdada?

 

[Scarab]

Question, where are all the Valdadascopes on the equipment lists from late 2015? Is this a relatively new scope?

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Its on a few equipment lists. Problem was not many available until around the end of last season. There were a bunch sold at the nbrsa nats in st louis

 

[Scarab]

Its on a few equipment lists. Problem was not many available until around the end of last season. There were a bunch sold at the nbrsa nats in st louis

Is 36x sufficient for 300yard in your opinion?

 

[JimPag]

Is 36x sufficient for 300yard in your opinion?

Depends how old you are. LOL! For me not enough, but I regularly shoot with guys that have Weaver T36's on their rifles at 300 yards and they say it's fine. The Valdada's are way better scopes than the Weavers.

 

[Scarab]

Depends how old you are. LOL! For me not enough, but I regularly shoot with guys that have Weaver T36's on their rifles at 300 yards and they say it's fine. The Valdada's are way better scopes than the Weavers.

Lol! I'm dangerously close to 41. I'm thinking I might have to give one a try. Having trouble finding warranty info and reticle.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

We have reticles not shown yet on the website such as a plain crosshair and a floating dot. The floating dot is real nice for score shooting.

 

[DeltaBravo]

Dusty,

I shoot VFS with a Sightron 10x50 with a dot, set at about 42X. How does the floating dot benefit score shooting? I use a 6BR so I need all the help I can get against those 30s!

Dennis