Bolt lift force

[clowdis]

I didn't measure the difference but I went to a 28# spring in my Definace Rebel this week and it is noticeably heavier than the stock spring (I think the stock spring in a 700 style action runs about #24)

I think you're correct. I believe, right or wrong, that the heavier spring will give you better ignition. That's why I use it in my match rifle.

 

[Chappy]

Nothing farther from the truth!
Monkey see,monkey do by copying Jim Borden's engineering is not applicable to any & all actions/bolts/trigger groups.

30+ yrs experience tells a different story without a you tube video's required on my part

How many 1000 yard record setting rigs have you built?

 

[johara1]

How many 1000 yard record setting rigs have you built?[/QUOTE

Maybe you should ask him how many he fixed after somebody screwed them up ………. jim

 

[Joe Salt]

I've been using 28# springs in my Rem. 721's for years.

Joe Salt

 

[MTlager]

How many 1000 yard record setting rigs have you built?

Shooters set 1000 yard records, not just the gun!!

 

[LHSmith]

Shooters set 1000 yard records, not just the gun!!

True, but conditions can change in a fraction of a second.......the one who can run the fastest has an definite advantage.....bag upset can be a killer.

 

[Northridge]

+1 mtlager nicely said.....

Shooting comp is about systems the human being a big one. Pros and cons to any alteration. what matters most is the mental aspect if the feel is not correct in your brain then it will always show up in field practice. If smooth load cycle is your mental hurdle go after it..... If fluent re-cock is your mental hurdle go after it...... I can take either side of that coin and compete well, and know many who skin that cat eleven ways to Sunday and still come to the same end results!!!!!! From the smoothest to the clunkiest crap you've ever seen I've been able to find "that spot" happy shooting

Shawn williams

 

[dkhunt14]

Shooters set 1000 yard records, not just the gun!!

A shooter can't do it without a good gun. Just like a few shooters win a lot so do certain smiths that build guns. You also need a decent barrel then it is up to the shooter to get the most out of it. Matt

 

[Northridge]

I don't think mtlager was implying that the rifle doesn't matter, rather it plays a part in the system but is not the only factor. I think we can agree that solid selection in equipment will set the stage for success but is not garanteed. You can give a boxer a world class set of boxing gloves but that doesn't make him a champion.

 

[JimPag]

Most gunsmiths don't know about timing and a lot don't know it can change accuracy. In the benchrest game it was proven. I only know of two or three gunsmiths in the country that do this work. If you look at the shortrange BR, a lot of actions were reworked, even custom ones and they were all done by one or two gunsmiths. Matt

I'll tell u who is a master at timing is Dwight Scott.

 

[Dans40X]

The video explains timing, and does not try to baffle. What part was BS?
Jim Borden seemed to like it.
Jim is politically correct as a business man as in the customer is always right...within reason.,I hold a different stand.
You have been one of the guys who likes to try and keep everything secret and that was my main motivation for the videos.
First rule of business-tell them what they want to know,but not everything that you know.
Sounds like it may be hurting your business
Once again,nothing farther from the truth.
I assume your not able to cut cocking ramps to to eliminate cock on close and maintain pin fall so this is why your trying to attack me?
Look at the big/whole picture w/o your one sided tunnel vision.
I think my experiments are working well.
I've heard differently since your Hollywood cinematography.
That video above was the last target of the season that Tom broke the 10 match IBS HG agg.
What time frame do you shoot records/aggs-before the sun rises.
You have Benchrest in Ak?
I prefer a sling & open sights & don't require crutches to hold & shoot a rifle or an astronomers telescope to shoot targets @ 5/8 mile.
Timed my first (a bat) about 3 years ago. Ended up with a smooth hand off and over .250" of pin fall.
Yo Pilgram,do some research from the late/legendary Palmizano & Pindell(PPC fame) from the late 70's regarding f/pin fall.At 1/4" are you attempting to replicate a Mauser or Musket in locktime.
Bat was interested and even offered to cut the ramp for me.
BAT-Bruce was a smart businessman to appease you to get his product out of your hands before it became bastardized.
Was your bastardization implemented by Bruce(BAT) or do you receive royalties-HIGHLY UNLIKELY.
I have no problem admitting I am new to this service.
Practice & perfect on your own equipment prior to hanging a shingle out & screwing up others equipment.
I am enjoying it very much.
Which part-Screwing up other peoples equipment.
Also, you havent had half a dozen calls from any I have done.
Stop putting your foot in your mouth & don't ask as it's confidential.
I know them all. And I'm still eager to learn more and always will be.

Maybe you should concentrate on the POS actions manufactured in MT as they are in dire straits!
Carry on Pilgrim!!

 

[Dans40X]

I prefer the action to close really smooth. When I am back to battery, I am already adjusting the rest if necessary before the bolt starts down. My guns, you could center up, close your eyes, close the bolt and fire. The shot will be true, this is how I prefer them.
I would love to see them easy on both ends, maybe the new full diameter bolt BAT!

Tom

Tom,
You're contradicting yourself.
If the rifle bastardization is as perfect as Alex states, adjustments of the rifle or rest would not be necessary.
Yes,your NPA is important as is follow through!

Loose lips sink ships!

 

[Dusty Stevens]

This is why i cant hardly buy a used action anymore. Never know whats been done to it

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Dan, same as usual insults and nothing to back it up. You have never handled an action I have worked on. But I'll put mine up against yours any day, I dont just polish things up and install a lighter spring. My actions will open a little stiffer because of the steeper cocking ramp and full weight spring, but they have a neutral handoff while still having .250" of pin fall and everything is checked out to be bind free with the spring removed. Everything is clearance so the pin bottoms out in the bolt like it should, any bind is corrected and new shroud fitted if necessary. I have found a lot of ignition issues in the process before the action was ever used. Bolt handles are re positioned as need fore and aft as well as counter clockwise to get full use of the extraction cam, then the root of the handle and cocking ramp clearanced as needed, got to have the action in hand to OPTIMIZE extraction. I am proud of my work and have no problems telling people exactly what I do. If your main concern is how light the bolt lift is, I am not your guy as I will not sacrifice pin energy for easy bolt lift. Still waiting for you to explain how that is "screwing up peoples equipment" Dan

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Tom,
You're contradicting yourself.
If the rifle bastardization is as perfect as Alex states, adjustments of the rifle or rest would not be necessary.
Yes,your NPA is important as is follow through!

Loose lips sink ships!

Never said it was perfect. Obviously your ignorant to Benchrest, an action is only one part of tracking and bag upset. Lock time, not very important in BR the gun is in bags. Consistent ignition is. Your ship is sinking.

 

[BoydAllen]

I think that this might be informative to some. I believe that Alex does his smithing.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Hey i wasnt even talking about your actions alex

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Hey i wasnt even talking about your actions alex

Sorry, my bad. I read it that you were. I'll edit my post

 

[Dans40X]

Pilgrim,
expand post #34
your questions answered(bold)

As stated, names withheld in strict confidentiality
(hint-handle attempts were elementary at best)

Let me guess,all your records are/were shot on your home range...correct.?
Try your luck at Williamsport or Butner,guaranteed results will be .......embarrassing.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Have a good one Dan I've said my piece.