MagnetoSpeed vs Lab Radar

[Twoboxer]

Which is precisely what a chronograph is designed to do.

I wouldn't want anything that attaches to the barrel when I was doing load development . Larry

And there is the heart of the choice.

Those who do not see value in chronoing the actual rounds used for load development and are willing to use surrogate rounds for that work . . . or those who are convinced that the bayo doesn't affect their load development . . . the MS is a terrific device . . . as long as it fits your firearm.

I have all 3 types of chronos (via CED, MS, and LR). The CED has two purple hearts. I know the MS changes *my* POIs, and the amount of that change will vary based on exactly where - and to some degree how tightly - it is attached to any of *my* barrels.

So me and my barrels are solidly in the radar camp now. One of the benefits I hadn't foreseen is I can easily chrono ALL rounds fired, no matter the venue, which gives me more data and more confidence I understand the variability of my loads.

But, no doubt, the MS is a fine device . . . the LR is new and relatively unproven.

 

[savagedasher]

And there is the heart of the choice.

Those who do not see value in chronoing the actual rounds used for load development and are willing to use surrogate rounds for that work . . . or those who are convinced that the bayo doesn't affect their load development . . . the MS is a terrific device . . . as long as it fits your firearm.

I have all 3 types of chronos (via CED, MS, and LR). The CED has two purple hearts. I know the MS changes *my* POIs, and the amount of that change will vary based on exactly where - and to some degree how tightly - it is attached to any of *my* barrels.

So me and my barrels are solidly in the radar camp now. One of the benefits I hadn't foreseen is I can easily chrono ALL rounds fired, no matter the venue, which gives me more data and more confidence I understand the variability of my loads.

But, no doubt, the MS is a fine device . . . the LR is new and relatively unproven.

I very seldom practice or do load development with out a crony. Or two . Are they accurate
Yes good enough . The larger the number of shots the more valid the results .Larry

 

[JimPag]

I wouldn't want anything that attaches to the barrel when I was doing load development . Larry

10-4 on that one. I could never understand why someone would attach something to the barrel for load development, doesn't make any sense at all.

 

[BigBlueandGoldie]

10-4 on that one. I could never understand why someone would attach something to the barrel for load development, doesn't make any sense at all.

It doesn't make any sense that you need to fire every round by a chronograph during load development. A chronograph shows you velocity, not accuracy. Find your load, fire 5-10 shots over your chronograph and get your velocity.

 

[CH Luke]

Agree not every round. The load work up routine that works for me for a new bullet or barrel that I know has chamber space is:
1) A conservative charge (something near the conservative max charge levels in the bullet maker's load data coupled with about 4-5 widely spaced CBTO's to get an idea of about where jump needs to be. Usually five rounds at five jumps. For me I'm looking for group size changes at this step so I tend not to use my V3 at this stage except at the highest jump. I will do this at 1-200 yards.
2) Say I find a jump that looks like .020 in #1. Now I test loads. Definitely use the V3 here. Everything I've researched tells me five rounds per charge is the most efficient. Looking for avg fps, sd and Es here to determine where the nodes are.
If I had Quickload it would really come in handy here to save time but there are some guys here that will give you some tips particularly if you at least know your COAL at the lands.
3) After finding the node(s) I now go back and play with finer steps of jump. In anything with longer jump than used in 2) I will use the V3 to check five rounds again to see what is happening to fps as a proxy for pressure. Really what I'm doing here is checking group size so other than for the shorter lengths it's without the V3.
Again the caveat is this worked for me. There are several guys running around here that will edit these steps and I will take serious note of what they have to say. I came up with these steps on a new F T/R 308 platform that gave me a wonderful 185 Juggs load and has me most of the way to a 200 hybrid load for this year.
Bottom line for me is that I was really struggling until I got the V3 last year. This is how I use it and I see it as an absolutely vital component of an efficient load development process.

 

[OKyote73]

How about if the LR will track the subcalibers? 17's and 20's. MS works every time

 

[DocUSMCRetired]

How about if the LR will track the subcalibers? 17's and 20's. MS works every time

It actually will track them outdoors well. I am working on finding the sweet spot for using indoors. Two times at the range now, I have purposely taken lane 1 and 2 (with 1 being against the wall) and as you can guess, the reflectivity of the wall caused some issues. Even with a 5-7. But we fired a 17 caliber air rifle outdoors, and it was able to track it. The biggest issue is the trigger though. Having to use the external trigger caused a lot of false triggers from other shooters. So we are still on a learning curve here. I plan to do more research in to how this can be avoided and fine tuned.

 

[Joe Salt]

Which is precisely what a chronograph is designed to do.


40X Try shooting with that thing on at 1000 yards then take it off and see what you get for a group! Velocity is one thing but when you put something on your barrel then take it off, don't expect it to shoot the same. Kind of like a tuner!

Joe Salt

 

[JimPag]

It doesn't make any sense that you need to fire every round by a chronograph during load development. A chronograph shows you velocity, not accuracy. Find your load, fire 5-10 shots over your chronograph and get your velocity.

I know what your saying. The way I'm doing it, I'm finding my accuracy and my velocity at the same time. I just find it easier doing it in one step than a 2 step operation like your doing, plus I fire less shots my way.

 

[OKyote73]

Doc, I've read where the LR has trouble tracking "fast" 17's. Say 4000 fps. Would like to see some real world experiences

 

[gaboon]

Another consideration is cost. If you are doing load development why should should I spend x dollars on a chronograph. When spending more or less dollars to get the same results. Proof is on the target.

 

[JimPag]

Another consideration is cost. If you are doing load development why should should I spend x dollars on a chronograph. When spending more or less dollars to get the same results. Proof is on the target.

That's where your wrong. I've been competing in the IBS in score competition since 2013. Most people shoot a 30BR. It has a few nodes that it shines in usually 2975 to 3000, and then just over 3050. With H4198 that is roughly somewhere in the 34.0-35.0 charge weight range. I could and have loaded rounds with charge weights in the 33.1 range. Sometimes being down around that range you can get the rifle shooting pretty good. If I chronographed it and it was going 2850 fps, even though it shot good on paper, there is no way that I would take that load to a match. I would get used for sure with that load. How would you know without a chronograph? You talk about spending money for a chronograph, a chrono is cheap money. I've spent over 80 grand in the last 3 seasons for all my rifles, scopes, rests, bullets, extra barrels, powder, ect so I can go compete. I'm not worried about cost, if I did, I wouldn't be playing this game.

 

[gaboon]

If you got the money to spend than go for it. If the say 100$ chorno gives you same results as the 500$ where is the benefit of it.

 

[JimPag]

If you got the money to spend than go for it. If the say 100$ chorno gives you same results as the 500$ where is the benefit of it.

I've never owned one that cost 100 bucks. I've bought and sold 4 Oehler 35P's since 96. My friend took his 100 buck chronograph over my house and we shot thru both and there wasn't too much difference in the numbers between the 2.

 

[Twoboxer]

If you got the money to spend than go for it. If the say 100$ chorno gives you same results as the 500$ where is the benefit of it.

Pretty simple, really. Don't need a cold range to set it up . . . or adjust it. If you are shooting 8 OCW test loads, it's a little tricky to set up an optical so that you can fire at all 8. None of the indoor ranges I frequent allow use of a chrono ahead of the firing line. The MS and LR are not affected by weather or lighting in any way.

But if those aren't important to you, you're right - YOU don't need to spend the money.

 

[Joe Salt]

One of the nice things about a Chronograph is once you find the velocity for your rifle were it has the best accuracy. Now go change lot# of powder that you are using you can come back to were you were before.

Joe Salt

 

[BartsBullets]

With the MagnetoSpeed I have had trouble getting it to pick up shots on my Dasher with a straight 1.250 barrel, as well as rail gun barrels that are up to 1.450 straight. The MagnetoSpeed also has had trouble picking up shots with tuners attached to the barrel. Yes I pretty much tried everything to get it to work. That is what drove me to getting the Labradar.

Bart

 

[JimPag]

One of the nice things about a Chronograph is once you find the velocity for your rifle were it has the best accuracy. Now go change lot# of powder that you are using you can come back to were you were before.

Joe Salt

BINGO! You got that right Joe!

 

[lawrence97]

I have my labradar being delivered tomorrow.

Are there any settings that need to be tweaked or is it ready to use out of the box? I will be using it to chrono 6 dasher and a 284.

As for the magnetospeed, I had the v3 and it never missed a shot from my dasher or 284 with 1.25" barrels with tuners. The only time I got an error was when the strap loosened on me when running 20rds at a match pace but I must have not had it tight enough when I initially set it up.

 

[BartsBullets]

I have my labradar being delivered tomorrow.

Are there any settings that need to be tweaked or is it ready to use out of the box? I will be using it to chrono 6 dasher and a 284.

As for the magnetospeed, I had the v3 and it never missed a shot from my dasher or 284 with 1.25" barrels with tuners. The only time I got an error was when the strap loosened on me when running 20rds at a match pace but I must have not had it tight enough when I initially set it up.

I should of had your magnetospeed. For the most part mine has been great. But worthless on straight barrels.

As for the Labradar just keep the instructions handy. It not hard to set up but I had to refer back to the instructions a for reviewing shots and arming it. Of course like a typical guy I threw batteries in it and turned it on. Never looked at the instructions till I got stuck!
Part of the setup is bullet weight so you'll need to change that when you change calibers.


It has a healthy appetite for double AA batteries. Some kind reviewer said it would run off of a auxillery battery pack, like those used for cell phones. Fortunately I had one and it kept the Labradar going for an all day session.

Bart